Vanilla is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    Hello everyone,

    Due to the recent complaints regarding very low rating some people are giving, we decided to look at the votes in more details. We found out that quite a few members are always giving 1 to every shots except their own (or the ones they can solve) and some very unfair voting behavior
    The moderator team would like to reinforce the fact that this really shouldn't happen.
    So this announcement is for the users who are voting unfairly, if this behavior continues we will be forced to take further actions!

    Note: of course you are allowed to vote low the shots, even to give a 1 if you think the shot deserves it but giving 1 to ALL the shots is simply not acceptable!
    •  
      CommentAuthorZythux
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    Totally agree with you Chrisy.
    I think it should also be stated in the 'WTM Observer', since it reaches many more people than here on the forum.
    It would be great if something can be done about this.
    (Also people who vote 10 for all solved shots and 1 for all shots they didn't solve)
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    We just made an announcement that everyone on the site will be able to see. And yes, we are taking it seriously, if it doesn't stop, we will do something about it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorsiren34
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    Thank you for doing this . . . that's really just rude . . . Everyone puts in effort to find and upload their shots . . . why would anyone do that . . .
    •  
      CommentAuthorrvr
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    Thanks a lot - I've seen so many examples of this: average to very good shots that are rated extremely low, only seconds after they were uploaded. I hope this warning has some effect!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMaaike
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    I agree completely. I found that newly uploaded shots immediately getting a 1 (or even several),regardless quality or image, is something happening quite frequently now. Because of my frustration about crazy facts like this, I admit I too was tempted lately to vote very high or low for some shots that did not deserve either (in my case, this had little to do with whether I could solve them). I humbly stand corrected and really hope the voting will become more fair from now on.
    • CommentAuthorerin
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    great idea
    • CommentAuthorlapin
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    This is great to take care of this problem. We all experienced unfair ratings (and I'm not talking about my uploads) and, as Maaike says, it sometimes pushes you to overrate shots, just beacause you want some "justice". I hope players will feel concerned.
    Anyway, you did a great job (and very reactive, too!)
    • CommentAuthorbazzy3000
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    GO WTM TEAM!!!!
  1.  permalink
    Hear hear!
    • CommentAuthordizz
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    Finally punition for those frustated people who gives 1 to all shots except their own !
    What about deleting all their ff shots (it there are) or removing their right to vote...
    Maybe the rating could be only accessible for rank 3 or 4...
    Maybe It's going a bit to far, but this website is so awesome, It would be pitty to have it ruined by just a few unfair voters...
    Anyway I'm 300% with you !
    •  
      CommentAuthorZythux
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    Making the rating accessible for rank 3 or 4 would not make sense, since rating is the biggest source of collecting bucks to get up in rank (maybe next to writing reviews, but not many people do that), so it could take ages to get there. But I do agree that if people keep giving bad ratings for all shots even after being warned, it's a good idea to remove their right to vote (maybe temporary the first time).
    • CommentAuthormunkt0n
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    it's baffling why anyone would do this, maybe they're after the 'horses head' memorabilia?
    • CommentAuthorFedtTony
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    "but giving 1 to ALL the shots is simply not acceptable! "

    But if someone is giving 1 to ALL shots, why would it make a difference? It wouldn't create any gaps between shots now, would it?
    • CommentAuthorShayah
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    @FedtTony: it is, because they are "giving 1 to every shots except their own" as Chrisy said just above, the only purpose is to give better chance to their own shots.

    Well, don't misunderstand me, I also totally agree with every people here, I'm really tired of seeing shots getting low rates just after they're submitted. But... Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with the idea of a "WTM militia"? I mean, just take care not to go too far on the control methods, Big Brother is not so far ;-)
    • CommentAuthorFedtTony
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    @Shayah
    well in that case, yes, it's unfair. Should have read her post more carefully.
    •  
      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    @shayah

    It's hardly big brother time, let's not over-react. Its a measure that has to be taken to ensure everyone gets a fair break.

    Imagine if 10/20 people got together, agreed to give each others shots 10 all the time, but 1 to *everyone* else. its enough to skew the results, and could be the difference between an honest single player consistently failing to get through to FF, and getting accepted. Why should the honest players suffer?

    If we were to say that this was happening, would you rather we stayed out of it and just let it go unpoliced? Or prefer us to try to do something to help the community as a whole?
    •  
      CommentAuthorStarvey
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    WE WANT NAMES!
    WE WANT NAMES!
    WE WANT NAMES!


    @ them00ch
    "...help the community as a whore?"


    Oh, a whole.
    Sorry, my bad


    S, founding and lone member of the Spoiled Uploaders Connexion Kindly Expecting a Reaction from the Staff (SUCKERS).


    PS : this was, mainly, some useless input and insights, you'll thank me later.
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    I think them00ch explained it very well. We are not here to be big brother neither we want to. To be honest, I dont like looking at the votes, I wish we didn't have to do this! But if some people go too far with the privilege that is given to them, then something needs to be done so that it doesn't affect other players chances in the game!
    The same goes with people who vote 1 to everything they dont know and 10 to all the shots they can solve in my opinion
    •  
      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    Starvey, sometimes I really have no idea what you are talking about :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorStarvey
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    @ them00ch

    Most of the time, me neither :D
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    also just to make things clear, if people who are doing this will change from voting 1 to voting 2 or 3 to everything, this is still the same problem. We are talking about a behavior of always voting low and in an unfair way. Just thought I mention it, just in case :)
    People should vote on the awesomeness of the shot, period!
    • CommentAuthorShayah
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    @them00ch & Chrisy:
    I think you're totally right, you need to do something on this particular problem, but I'm always a little bit touchy when it comes to my "individual freedom", especially in these HADOPI times (I guess every French citizen should understand my feeling)

    Believe me, I'm not over-reacting at all, I'm taking it very easy. My main problem is that my English is not good enough to write any subtle message. I wish I spent less time in the Irish pubs when I lived in Dublin, and more time in class...

    P.S.: I generally give a 10 rating to my submissions, will I be banned for that?

    ...

    Ok, just kidding ;-)
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    he he Shayah, do not worry, we are only talking about those who really exaggerate with this type of voting. The rest is subjective, a 4 is someone else 9. We are certainly not in favor of touching anyones freedom to vote unless we see something really unfair is done that has a negative effect for the game and the rest of the uploaders as a whole, just to give a chance to everyone. After all, this is a game, a game must have rules and these rules must be fair to everyone!
    • CommentAuthordizz
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    @ Zythux : indeed I forgot all the bucks you get by voting, so yes it was dumb to let only ranks 3-4 vote...
    @ them00ch : right, it seems also to me that people who are underrating, do it in group ! up to 5-10 people vote very low... almost at the same time. That's really unfair !
    Anyway thanks to you guys for the great work you're doing, allowing those shots to go through ff...
    • CommentAuthorRDPL55
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    Hi !
    I've just made a small statistic study on the NS movies I took a bit more than 100 shots and made somme statistical tests between the note and the number of solvers. (for exemple r = 0,71, not bad! but it's not clearly linear, but exponential because very very solved movies have allways a very good note). The conclusion is that the more the film is solved, the higher is the note (not a surprise but it's mathematic now, not just an impression!) and so the beauty or awesomeness of the shot doesn't seem to be the most important in most of the cases (you will allways find some exeptions of course). But, some poeple said to me that the aim of the game is to solve the shots (to get points...) So it's not a surprise that some players consider playing WTM as a competition and if it's a competion you have to use every way to get points and reach your sunny place in the Hall of Fame..., that's the case in the true life too, not only on WTM !!
    • CommentAuthorShayah
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    OMG, Mathematics in English... RDPL55, you're killing me!
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    @RDPL55
    that doesn't mean it is right! and believe it or not, from what I can see now, the majority of people are still voting fair, although they do give higher to the shots they know (I dont think we can change that), they are still capable to vote fairly the other shots! But some dont, and from now on, we are be able to see who is fair and who isn't. If these people continue to do so, there will be consequences. That's all there is to say
  2.  permalink
    I personnaly don't vote for shots I didn't solve, because I think it's not fair to judge a picture if I don't know the movie it's coming from. (except when it's a full face of a blockbuster star, which is very boring)
    if I'm not alone to behave like this, it could also partly explain the low votes on low solved pictures.
    • CommentAuthorbazzy3000
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    hmm interesting to read all these reactions.. but reading RDPL55 entry i have to agree with that.. i think it's people just not getting the idea.. perhaps it's even so that people might not even notice they are rating a little higher on a solved shot, that is for honest voters.., but this gave me an idea!

    wouldn't it be a good subject for a (the) next sidequest??, the forgotten beauty of WTM or something like that??, just an idea.. and perhaps open a thread for this one for people to suggest shots or something like that?!

    and as long as people vote 1 on everything and 10's for themselves there wouldn't be a problem really.. just as long as they don't group up.. and provided you have more than 1 vote on your own shot ;)

    but i say, BAN THE FOOLS FROM VOTING!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorZythux
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    'perhaps it's even so that people might not even notice they are rating a little higher on a solved shot'

    probably this is the case with me, but still there are many shots I didn't solve and vote 8,9 and even 10 and also solved shots that get a really bad mark (uninteresting headshots for example). Dont think it's strange solved shots get a slightly better rating, cause its easier to see key elements. But the difference between good, barely solved shots and average, many times solved shots is ridiculous and totally unfair at the moment, but luckily we all agree on this.
    • CommentAuthorbazzy3000
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    only said that because i'm suspecting myself of doing that ;) but shots that i can't solve and are cool i rate high ofcourse ;) but i do agree that once one knows the movie he or she is a better judge for the shot.. but the admins have dealt with that ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
     permalink
    Guys, dont worry about voting a little higher or a little lower if you do or dont know the film. OK, you should vote on the picture and not the movie, but it's a psychological effect that most of us fall victim to. You are all completely free to vote from 1 to 10 on any image you see fit.

    The real issue is one of collaboration, and working with friends, having dummy/fake accounts, voting *all* images 1s except you and your friend's images etc. which is essentially trying to cheat the system.

    Obviously we are not going to name any names, but we know who is doing this, and this is just a friendly way of urging people to change their ways before we send round the Dementors :)

    @shayah : everyone rates their own images 10 :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorRazzomega
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009 edited
     permalink
    I vote 1 to all my shots and 10 to all other shots:D!!!! Give me some credit for that...;)

    Edit: Sometimes i see a shot which I mean has got a too high rating, then it happens that I give it a 1, so the overall rating will be more fair, that's maybe wrong too...
    • CommentAuthorMaxi
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    Edit: Sometimes i see a shot which I mean has got a too high rating, then it happens that I give it a 1, so the overall rating will be more fair, that's maybe wrong too...
    ***
    Exactly! That's the point. I do the same in many cases. I.m.o. that's okay. You must have a look at the rating just before NS time expires and not shortly after release. So don't be so fussy with the votes. ;) It'll be all right.
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009 edited
     permalink
    I have to desagree, for me that's not fair! and I'm sorry to say Maxi but we see this on a lot of shots which also dont have a high ratings. And even if it has a high rating, and then? when people will stop to think that way and will simply vote on the awesomeness of the shot and nothing more, things will be much easier for everyone. This is how I vote: I dont look how much it already has, I simply look at the shot, nothing more. This is a question of respect for people who spend time looking for shots and uploading them! And if a shot has a high rating and I like the shot, I dont see any reasons why I would decide to give it a 1 just to make it go lower! You wouldn't like people doing this to your shot either, and I dont think this is ok to do!

    Edit: Anyway most of what we see now is clearly not just about giving a 1 to high rated shots, we see 1 (or should I say 2 or 3 since we made the announcement he ;) ) to about everything low rated or high rated. I dont want to do any finger pointing on this topic so I will stop here!
    • CommentAuthorMaxi
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    So you have another point of view and proceeding than me, that's okay. ;) never mind.

    And if a shot has a high rating and I like the shot, I dont see any reasons why I would decide to give it a 1 just to make it go lower!
    ***
    As I said it that's just the case if I have the feeling that a shot is overrated! You can't generalize it for every shot. Good shots (which I like) get a 10 even it has a high rating, of course!
    @ya edit: Apart from that there are also shots which I don't like :) and I have reasons for that. Whether 1, 2 or 3 is irrelevant, so allow me my latitude. ;)
    Funnily today was my first visit here (forum) for a long time, hence I wasn't informed about any announcement, just read the Contest Thread, I'm sorry.
    peace
    •  
      CommentAuthorrvr
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    @bazzy: great idea, the forgotten beauty of WTM!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMaaike
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    @Razzomega's edit: that's exactly the kind of unfair voting I was guilty of too. Not so much to help my own shots make it (though I won't deny it has occurred a couple of times...I'll be good from now on ;).

    It's as Lapin said too, about the feeling that some shots are rated unjustly high/low, and trying to correct that by adding a way too high or low rating to the total yourself. But I'll refrain from that too, hoping the voting is gonna get more just from now on. let's give it a chance to correct itself. And otherwise I'll cheer on those dementors wholeheartedly!
    •  
      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    @maxi and others

    With all due respect, who are you to decide that an image is "overrated" ?

    If an image is getting a score of 8, its because the average of all the people voting think its an 8. If you think its a 4, vote a 4, don't try to offset the score by giving it a 1. Who are you to think only your opinion is right? Its a very arrogant way of thinking and voting.

    And of course you are allowed to vote 1/2/3 on images you dont like, everyone is free to use the entire scale however you like. But voting 1/2/3 on *every* image, apart from your own and your friends, sucks, and this is the behaviour that needs to change.
    •  
      CommentAuthorZythux
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009 edited
     permalink
    'If an image is getting a score of 8, its because the average of all the people voting think its an 8. If you think its a 4, vote a 4, don't try to offset the score by giving it a 1. Who are you to think only your opinion is right? Its a very arrogant way of thinking and voting.'

    I totally agree on this with them00ch. Sometimes I really don't get why certain images get such a high or low rating, but I always try to vote fair. I think this is the only way the system can really work properly.
    • CommentAuthorRDPL55
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    Hi !
    Once more if you love statistics another one that won't surprise anyone. Cartoons or anime movies have higher notes than others. If you take 10 anime movies and 10 "normal" movies (in NS) the mean of the note is always higher with animes... you can repeat the operation it works !! (exept if you chose the movies of course or are very (un)lucky !) So, this is very serious... is WTM infiltrated by defactors from Walt Disney or Pixar ?? I tremble...
    P.S. It works too with Color/B&W movies (a bit less significant). In fact those stats may represent the "middle" profile of WTM player... It could be fun to have a contest about WTM player profile ? What does he (she ?) look like ??? what's his identikit ?? We could search in the archive the face that looks the more like us and see..... ;-)
    •  
      CommentAuthorforerunner
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    i used to vote with only 1 or 10's. but after seeing a lot of stills, i don't think you can generalize it to that degree. Sometimes there are just slight differences in uploaded shots.
    As themooch said, you have to use the whole spectrum of votes possible.
    •  
      CommentAuthorZythux
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    Sometimes I'm even fed up I can't vote a 6.5 or a 7.5 but I know that doesn't make sense, lol.
    •  
      CommentAuthorefji
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    Hi folks,
    you seem to discover democracy with anonymous votes and its drawbacks. Every system has its flaws and leads to unexpected behaviour of the citizens. It happens all the time with all the democratic processes. The only way to avoid that is dictatorship or the absolute power of a small "enlighted" group, but that's not what we want, do we ?
    To be honest, I am a kind voter and almost always vote 10 on the shots I like. I simply don't vote on the others. It is a form of respect for the posters. I admit having given some 1 to a couple of Johnny D. headshots and boring blockbusters :)
    • CommentAuthorChrisy
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009
     permalink
    We can also stop people from doing this, I dont see how this wouldn't be a solution! we are talking about a minority that totally exagerate with this but a minority that has a bad impact, and this should be stopped!
    •  
      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009 edited
     permalink
    While I can see where you are coming from, all these political analogies are really not relevant. This is a game. If there are a select few people that are out to spoil the game, something needs to be done. This is not a case of Big Brother, or a fascist dictatorship trying to tell people how to play the game.

    I couldn't give a toss if someone doesn't like my picture and votes a 2. They are free to do this. But if a group of people all get together and perhaps even create dummy accounts, and collaborate to screw over the system and the other honest players, something needs to be done.

    We aren't trying to "rule with an iron fist" as some people seem to imply. We are trying to weed out the (very small) minority that are ruining the game for others.

    No-one has anything to worry about, and no-one should change their voting behaviour *at all* unless they are already "cheating". And these people already know who they are.

    edit: chrisy beat me :)
    • CommentAuthormarinaraujo
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009 edited
     permalink
    It's been bothering me for weeks that some amazing but unsolved shots are getting low votes. Personally, I give high votes to my shots (and I guess most of the players do so) and to the shots I know and that I really like, but I don't rate low the ones I don't know. As it's clearly said, we must vote based on the shot's awesomeness. There are people here who give importance to WTM and spend their time taking and uploading shots. The mood here has always been of respect and fun, and that shouldn't be disturbed by few ones who are just interested on their own privilege, on getting bucks and climbing upper on the ranking.
    • CommentAuthorissob05
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2009 edited
     permalink
    Well, what if it was given 10 WTM bucks for each rating? Doing so would cut in half the amount of shots people should rate to reach the 300 bucks per day limit, and then, maybe, increase the quality of rating. You know, having less shots to rate every day gives everyone more time to do it, having more time makes the need to rush smaller and it's possible to analyze everything better.

    But I guess that's just me.

    xD
    • CommentAuthorwanass
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2009 edited
     permalink
    Hello everyone! we think a large part of players, at some point, was seduced by the idea of earning points or a special status. And to do so, they maybe have used the appeal of grades or small agreements with friends. But the fact is that there seems to be two profiles of players in the WTM: those who like the dynamic of the game (see shots trying to hit, etc.) and those who just like to win one (or any) game. For these last should really be made a boundary.
    PS: sorry about bad english!