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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2009 edited
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    Hi all,

    We see this question over and over in the forums;

    "my image had x score why wasnt it accepted" or
    "I see an image in FF with a lower score went through zomg!?!?".

    So I thought I would write a post to hopefully explain the selection process a bit better, and dispel some myths. Many/most of you already know this, but hopefully this will be a useful resource to direct new users to, if they have any concerns in the future.

    Shots are submitted into the New Submissions section, and they stay there for a minimum of 24 hours, and a maximum of 48 hours, before being rejected. Every 56 minutes, our resident janitor Scruffy approves the highest scoring image that has LESS than 24 hours left.

    It may help to think of the first 24 hours as a vote gathering stage, and the 2nd 24 hours as the actual approval stage. Your image may be the highest scoring image with less than 24 hours left, but if another image with a higher score drops below the 24 hour mark before scruffy works his magic every 56 minutes, that image will go through ahead of yours.

    So, the mathematically-minded of you would have figured out by now that Scruffy puts through about 30 images a day. But about 60/70 images a day go through to FF, some with scores which are a lot lower than you may expect. Here is where the moderators come in. The moderators will also put through good images which will not make it on score alone. This is why you see images with lower scores in FF.

    In summary, forget about scores and just concentrate on making great looking, interesting images, and your image will have a good chance of making it, either through public vote or selection by a moderator.

    That being said, sometimes images just dont make it. We cannot put through them all, everyone has had images which they loved but didnt make it, dont be too disappointed and keep trying!


    Addendum:
    Moderators do NOT reject snapshots. The ONLY reason a shot gets rejected, is because the community didn't rate it high enough, and that is an automated process. Moderators simply choose to save some shots from the community dustbin ;)
    • CommentAuthortoffetomas
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2009
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    I did my maths and figured out scruffy puts only 25.7 shots through a day. (there's 24 x 60 = 1440 minutes in a day, 1440/56 = 25.7 shots a day, correct me if i'm wrong). Maybe it's an idea to increase this just a little bit and push a little less through.
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2009 edited
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    The current system works fine, that would make no tangible difference at all. The shots that scruffy would push through are pushed through by us anyway, generally speaking.
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    Very clear and complete explanations, thanks a lot for this good work, mOOch !
    (As usual, send my percentage on my paypal count, thx...)
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      CommentAuthorCotp
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
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    them00ch "It may help to think of the first 24 hours as a vote gathering stage, and the 2nd 24 hours as the actual approval stage. Your image may be the highest scoring image with less than 24 hours left, but if another image with a higher score drops below the 24 hour mark before scruffy works his magic every 56 minutes"

    Question: Does that mean that if someone uploads an amazing screenshot next to ours the odds our against us ?

    Other questions: when I write these lines there are 100 screenshots under 24hours, does that mean that only 1 out of 100 would be chosen ? How many shots are saved by moderators can we know ? What's the process ?

    I'm still torned between trying to do hard to solve and not so obvious shots like the one I just uploaded or upload some obvious shots... (even though I have to admit my tape shot went through, guess it must have been a moderator's choice since the rates where low)
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      CommentAuthorZythux
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
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    'when I write these lines there are 100 screenshots under 24hours, does that mean that only 1 out of 100 would be chosen?'
    Every 56 minutes the best shot with a maximum of 24 hours to go will be chosen, so around 26 shots make it this way each day.

    'How many shots are saved by moderators can we know?'
    You can go to a certain date, count the shots minus the 26 explained above minus the awesome uploads (maybe around 3 each day max if there are no special series by someone)

    'What's the process?'
    Moderators normally check the shots with only a few hours left (because they probably won't make it) and choose the most awesome ones to push through manually.
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009 edited
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    quote: "Other questions: when I write these lines there are 100 screenshots under 24hours, does that mean that only 1 out of 100 would be chosen ? How many shots are saved by moderators can we know ? What's the process ?"

    The answers to all those questions are in the first post :)

    To clarify, every 56 minutes the highest scoring shot with <24hours goes through automatically.

    so around 26 shots get chosen automatically daily. About 80 go through total daily, which means around 55 shots are pushed through by moderators daily. This figure changes day-to-day.

    quote: "Question: Does that mean that if someone uploads an amazing screenshot next to ours the odds our against us ?"

    No more than if someone uploads an amazing shot within the same 24 hour period :)

    quote: "I'm still torned between trying to do hard to solve and not so obvious shots like the one I just uploaded or upload some obvious shots... (even though I have to admit my tape shot went through, guess it must have been a moderator's choice since the rates where low)"

    I think we spoke about this before, just take the shots you like. Someone previously said "if its a tough, little known movie, take an easy shot; if its a well-known, easily recognizable movie then take a tough shot". Its a good rule of thumb, but still not a guarantee. Just make sure the shots themselves look interesting, regardless of the importance in the story etc..

    There are no rules or guarantees, just take the shots you like, if they consistenly dont make it, then try another approach. Sometimes we have great runs where all our shots go through, other times we only manage to get 1 in 5 through. Just keep trying, and dont get stressed. Once its uploaded its out of your hands :)
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      CommentAuthorCotp
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
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    Thanks both of you for your posts.

    Just saw MrZob uploading 3 great shots in a row on the same theme (beautiful pair of legs). I find that intersting.
    If we do like this and upload 3 shots in a row, does that mean if I followed you well that only 1 of these 3 shots have a chance to make it (that is not counting the moderators of course) ?

    Cotp
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
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    No it doesnt mean that at all, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

    The shots once they pass the 24 hour mark, have another 24 hours to be selected. So they could all go through depending on score. Every 56 minutes a shot is chosen, so each shot has 24 chances to get through automatically. Or they could be pushed through manually.
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      CommentAuthorCotp
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
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    hahaha guess I should go to math class again, sorry about that... :(
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
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    No problem, I guess its complicated for a new person to the site.
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    I think the fact we don't get any explanation on how to change the resolution of the picture so the red bars would not be seen and then snapshot is rejected without any reason given is upsetting, personally I'm done uploading - I tried many times and each time the snapshot was deleted, tough, I guess others have better luck I'll stick to solving :P
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      CommentAuthorpspan
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    red bars isnt the problem, its the black bars all around. There is a lot of info in the forum about how to remove them, and how to take shots in general. You can contact experienced uploaders or moderators with questions if you want. So, there should be no problem getting good shots. The resolution, by the way, has nothing to do with it....
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    well see, I was asking and nobody is responding, so how can I know? I'm trying to contribute to site, but I'm very very lost and I find the help/FAQ section not helpful.
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      CommentAuthorfungus
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010 edited
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    sati you could search in the forum for old discussions and would find quite some answers.
    Here's for example a thread about cutting black bars:

    http://forum.whatthemovie.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=456&page=1#Item_25

    In this discussion you also can find two useful links by MisterZob who shows the problem:

    http://siboul.free.fr/wtm/red-index.html

    and gives a tutorial on how to cut black bars:

    http://siboul.free.fr/wtm/tutoWTM.html

    Hope this helps.
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    Hey Sati, the comments above are very helpful, read them and I'm sure you wont have any more problems. You said before you were asking for help and no-one was responding - can I ask where?
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    you can.
    I asked my fellows and the guy who rejected snapshots, as well as few uploaders.
    If my snaps are going to be rejected in 2 days, I'm not uploading anymore, that all there is to it :)
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    The guy who rejects snapshots (scruffy) is not a real person :)
    • CommentAuthorAsmodai
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2010
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    And sati, there are hundreds of snapshots uploaded a day, and only a few make it, so a few rejects isn't something to worry about. Just keep trying!
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    I can understand why mine haven't made it through, but when a pic made it through to FF yesterday that is one of the movie's most iconic shots and the EXACT shot can be found anywhere on the internet, well, it just makes me question the whole system. I thought we were supposed to make our own grabs. I have the movie myself and as a lot of people guessed it I'm surprised nobody questioned it.
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2010
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    @ luluthebeast : If you think the shot has been taken from another site, message me please and I will look into it.
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    Sorry, but when a grab that is almost exactly the same as one of mine makes it to FF and mine got deleted it's time for me to stop wasting my time with the members silly games and say buh-bye now!
    • CommentAuthorAsmodai
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2010
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    Well, if you don't want to understand, bye! :D
    • CommentAuthorJohannaP
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2010
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    Sad beast..
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      CommentAuthorthem00ch
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2010
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    I would just like to contribute an addendum to the original post, because I see many complaints on people's profiles about "moderators rejecting my snap". I just wanted to add a clarification to resolve this misconception :

    "Moderators do NOT reject snapshots. The ONLY reason a shot gets rejected, is because the community didn't rate it high enough, and that is an automated process. Moderators simply choose to save some shots from the community dustbin ;)"

    So next time a shot gets rejected, if you feel the need to blame someone, I am afraid you will have to blame the voters for not voting it high enough, not the moderator team. I understand there is an element of frustration in shots being rejected, and sometimes people just need to vent, but saying you hate the moderators for it is misguided anger.
    • CommentAuthorAsmodai
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2010
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    The term "rejected" is a bit confusing here, I think there lies the main problem
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      CommentAuthorenerg
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2010
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    "Your snap isn't selected" is a better way to put it I guess :) But I don't care anyhow!
    • CommentAuthorLordMyst
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2010
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    or "Your snapshot was not good enough"
    or "Your snapshot was to boring"

    ;)
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    "Your snapshot didn't get enough score to get through FF."
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      CommentAuthorkinoute
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2010
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    Hi, i have a question about FF.

    If a new submission has many "favourites" but not a very good score, is that count for the "decision" to be a FF or not?

    Thank you
    • CommentAuthorlovelyT
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2010
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    But basically, these days it is very difficult to have a shot in FF unless it went straight into FF because of its votes. Am I right?
    • CommentAuthorLordMyst
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2010
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    @kinoute

    Moderators can take that in count to put a shot with a lot favourites to be a FF
    • CommentAuthorMisterZob
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2010
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    Oh sorry, I missed that one.

    @kinoute
    LordMyst is right, mods can take favorites into account to approve a shot that wouldn't have made it.
    But favorites are useless for automatic approval. They do count for SotD though.
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2010 edited
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    Two times my shots had 7,60 and 6 favs and didn't make it so I'm gonna say it's useless:D
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    #
    • CommentAuthorrulo
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2010
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    done:)
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    #
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      CommentAuthorefji
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2010
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    http://whatthemovie.com/shot/108065
    7.57 + 3 favs and rejected
    Quite disappointing :(
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2010
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    I succed in uploading anything like once a week.
    The ratings are bad, at first I wanted to buy more awesome uploads but I don't think I want to pay money to the site, however If out of 20 shots I really want to upload here nothing will go through it may be just the only way.
    Awesome uploads should be given for more stuff not just for the contest, the same people keep winning. We all participate, we all contribute why not give AU each time you level up or something. Anyways, efji 7,57 is, apparantly low, I saw shots with 7 favs and 7,70 getting rejected.
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      CommentAuthorefji
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2010
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    @sati, yes 7.57 is not so high, but I really love this shot. Besides it had a very high rating, above 8, until the last night... Something happens every night (european time).
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2010
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    actually 7,57 is quite high comparing to other notes here, but not high enough :/ my every shot has around 7,50 and gets rejected, people tend to vote below 5 and shots get rejected.
    I observed that the only chance you have it's if after 30 votes it's above 8. otherwise it will get rejected and counting on magically accepted is like counting on snow in the summer:)
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      CommentAuthorMichele
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2010
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    @sati, not so much. i had a shot with more that 30 voters above 8 and it still got rejected. i think it was because no one knew the movie(and it was a famous one), so they were giving low votes =/
    sad, but true...
    it was this one: http://whatthemovie.com/shot/105866
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      CommentAuthorMuten
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2010
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    Ok. When all my last submissions were killed because of "black bars" then I think I'll waste no more time here.
    • CommentAuthorAsmodai
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2010
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    Or you could have avoided it, by cropping the black bars before uploading.
    • CommentAuthoragonistes
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2010 edited
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    Have to agree with Asmodai here, looking at your page you've had 5 shots deleted in the last 8 days because of black bars. It doesn't even take a minute to crop the shot and remove the bars, and depending on the shot it can make a huge difference IMO (I often vote 1-2 points lower than I would've without the bars, if I feel they make the shot less appealing).
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      CommentAuthorfnick
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2010
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    I don't like it very much if the shot doesn't fill the screen as much as it could. So uploading good shots in the first place is better than replacing most of the shots after 30 days. It takes some time to take good shots of a movie. So why not waste one or two minutes more to edit the shot you want to upload? So I agree with agonistes on the decreased voting.

    But I can understand Muten, too. He has been uploading shots with small black bars for a long time like many other players - even some mods. This has been ok until now (if they were not too big). There is even a thread in this forum where most of the people (again also mods) agree, that "small" black bars are no reason for deletion. They even judged players who casted one of the five necessary deletion votes on shots with small bbs.

    Now suddenly shots are deleted for a reason that was no reason before. And they are not only deleted because five people think so. They are deleted by single mods. I'm not saying this is totally wrong. But if the mods change their mind to a zero tolerance policy it would be nice to do it in a more sensitive way. This could be announcing one of these nice newsletters saying something like "Beware, a new sheriff is in town and from now on he will delete all shots with black bars - no matter how small. Check this link to ensure you stay by the law: <tutorial>" (in the smart words you always find in a magic way). Or what about leaving a friendly shout on the profile of people whos shots got deleted the first time for this reason. Many people don't know every rule and they don't knowexactly what they are doing wrong.

    Just some suggestions ..

    And to be clear: I don't think black bars are nice, just that people sometimes appreciate friendly conversations and that some harsh words or actions can easily lead to conflicts and players quitting the game - especially on the web ;)
  7.  permalink
    I kinda like black bars… This snap is great: http://whatthemovie.com/shot/111943
    • CommentAuthorAsmodai
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2010
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    Before I started this zero-tolerance policy, I have reminded people several times, both in chat, as shouts on shots and in topics here, but that didn't seem to help. When checking if a shot has black bars (which may look small in the WTM frame), I always check the original picture, if it is just a matter of a few pixels too few that are cropped, it's fine with me, it happens, but all shots I deleted had huge black bars where the uploader just didn't bother with cropping anything.

    Example:

    This is one of Muten's shots that got deleted, in the WTM frame the bars look small, but here you can clearly see there's more. What if the size of the WTM frame gets changed sometime, or the resizing method? There would be lots of these shots with now small black bars, that would suddenly look terrible!
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      CommentAuthorfnick
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2010
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    This is a good thing to know!

    So far I thought black bars on two sides of the shot were ok (no matter if they are in the picture itself or added by wtm). In your example the shot is 711px × 400px and thus it has not only the big black bars but also 9 pixel of additional small black bars on both sides to fit the 720px-frame. Of course this is against the rule. It's like driving 5 mph too fast - it's up to the mod to decide if you are punished or just warned.

    But if I understand you right now it is also not ok to have black bars even if they result in the shot having only 2 bbs in the frame? I'm asking because I already thought about leaving some of the upper and lower bbs of 16:9 shots to make them fill EXACTLY the 720 x 400 px-frame. Reason: I don't want the "you solved this shot"-bar to hide a part of the shot (if there is a possibility of letting it just hide a black bar). But it seems this would not be ok and I should rather not do it, right?

    And regarding the warnings: I only checked Mutens profile, not his shots. So if you reminded him there you already did what I suggested. My bad :)
    • CommentAuthorAsmodai
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2010 edited
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    We want people to crop all black bars before uploading, because the WTM upload process takes care of the proper resizing, without changing the ratio.

    In your case, where you dont want the solved-bar to hide part of it, this can happen to two shots:

    Shots that fill the WTM frame vertically, but not horizontally. Here you can keep black bars on the bottom to avoid the bar, but it will distort the picture or cause black bars on all sides
    Shots that fill the WTM frame horizontally, but not vertically. Here you can keep the black bars on the bottom to avoid the bar, but when uploading without any black bars, the WTM resizer fixes the image itself, so you will get the same amount of black bars, while the image itself that you uploaded is perfectly good (without bb).

    As you see, there is just no point in leaving black bars on it, even when you can't see it in the WTM frame itself. There's more on this on MrZob's tutorial, I believe: http://siboul.free.fr/wtm/index.htm