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@them00ch
Good point, I'm having the same issue... -
Then one of you should write a ticket for the bugtracker. :\
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hmm, the shots I uploaded that have the problem seem to have the letterbox encoded in the actual DVD picture. The ones that DONT have the problem like yours do not have this letterbox (is this what anamorphic is?).
I guess I wil always have to use an anamorphic source, or manually cut the upper and lower letterbox bars from non-anamprphic stills, something which I have never had to do before. -
Chrisy, the shots you uploaded, did they have an upper and lower, letterbox type bars in the still itself? or was it totally frameless like movieuser's still?
EDIT: nice still btw movieuser :) -
Anyway, movieuser dont exagerate with this deletion, if it doesn't totally fit, it is really not a big deal. It is a big deal with the black bars are really too obvious, but if it almost fits, I dont see the problem...
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That's what I always do: Cut the bars away.
them00ch: Thank you, but it's too easy. Google will solve it for you. -
Well my last one for instance had an upper and lower one but nothing showed on the sides on my computer, but you can see that there are some little ones http://whatthemovie.com/shot/23261
But there is really nothing to cut -
@MU - OK thats a slightly different thing then, I thought that if you totally remove all the letterbox, it would vertically stretch the image and distort the aspect ratio when uploaded, so I always left the letterbox in. This has not caused any problem until recently, like my last 3/4 uploads.
But if the image stays exactly the same when you upload it then I will remove the letterbox as well on future uploads.
its still weird that these tiny bars have become a problem for so many images all of a sudden. Perhaps there has been a slight change to the layout by a few px and the way it was before didnt affect these letterboxed images.
Also I still didnt even notice black bars on half the shots you voted for, and if they are that insignificant, I dont think you should vote-delete them. Thats obviously just my opinion and you are entitled to yours. If other people agree with you they will vote also. -
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CommentAuthorLePaposaure
- CommentTimeJul 1st 2009 edited
I agree with efji. And I think small black bars are depending on the software we are using. VLC is adviced by WTM, so I trust this soft and the shots made by it.
For me the tiny black lines are parts of the shot itself.
If the aspect ratio is respected, I don't have to crop it. Or it would be an editing of the movie, it's not the movie anymore.
The ratio has to be as it is in the movie, and the upload has to fill the box well. That's all.
And if you guys can't bear small black lines on the image's side, just vote down, but don't vote for deletion (or you'll have to vote for deletion for thousands of shots in the archives...) -
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- CommentAuthorabendwaerts
- CommentTimeJul 1st 2009
Well, finally you seem to get the point.
The stills are shown in a field of 720 x 400 px which makes a ratio of 1,800 (9/5).
If a shot has a smaller ratio gets bars at the left and right side, like at the old 4/3 (1,33) format.
If a shot has a higher ratio it will get bars at the button and top, like at the 2.35:1 (2,35) ultra widescreen format.
Lets take a look at picture 23064
the shot (and the example with bars) is in the 16/9 (1,778) format and it will get the bars at the sides.
So 16/9 format, which is normally used on DVD, makes the problems with the black bars, and thats why you should cut the bars from the picture. (And thebars still don't belong to the movie.) -
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CommentAuthorLePaposaure
- CommentTimeJul 1st 2009 edited
I'm sorry , but I can't see the difference between and http://whatthemovie.com/shot/23064 (except the two little black lines I don't care about). Same ratio for me, the box is filled : the shot is available.
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@abendwaerts
"Well, finally you seem to get the point. "
Nice attitude you got there abendwaert! ;)
The issue isnt one of aspect ratios, we dont need a lecture about that. Please bear in mind that this entire thread was actually born as a result of someone voting "black bars" on any image which was 4:3, so we all understand how aspect ratios affect the way images are viewed.
The issue is if you should be vote-deleting movies with like 2px or 3px bars on the side. The majority of people (vocal in the forums anyway) think this is excessive. I also still feel this is unnecessary. However if you want to, despite knowing that people think this is overly critical, then carry on voting. If people agree with you, they will join you and vote too, this is your right as a user of the site.
I didnt even notice there were these black bars at the side of most of these images until you vote-deleted. If people arent even noticing, do you really think it warrants a delete vote? Im just asking that you use a modicum of discretion, and save your votes for the images that REALLY deserve it.
I really dont want this discussion to get overly heated, so please feel free to ignore my plea to be just a *little* more relaxed when using the vote delete. I understand rules are rules, but next time you go to hit vote delete on an image which has a couple of pixels, please try to remember this conversation and think, is a couple of pixels really worth spoiling someone elses uploading fun?
No offence is meant by any of this, I encourage you to come back to me in the name of friendly debate :) -
Vote-delete on them00ch. ;)
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hehe :p
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CommentAuthorforerunner
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2009
i fully agree with lepaposaure
what does it matter if there is a really tiny black line on the side of a still.
as long as the ratio is good, quality is good, why would you even take time to vote delete for that. -
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that's my opinion as well. As long as there are no enormous bars, it doesn't hurt anybody. Maybe we should make it a tiny bit clearer in the FAQ.
Nevertheless, the possibility to revoke your own vote-delete and for admins/moderators close a vote-delete is on our ToDo list. -
Thanks naut. Nice to get an admins decision on this.
abendwaerts and movieuser take note :P -
Another one http://whatthemovie.com/shot/24198
Maybe it would be good to make things clear in the FAQ that black bars should be a reason for deletion when they are really big, not like this...
Maybe by putting 2 examples: one good, one bad...
It's tiring...
Can someone maybe remove this vote for deletion before everyone start voting as well? -
Ok this isn't about black bars, but I had to put it in here so you guys can laugh with me... because I laughed really hard especially DiedEnFreek's comment is sooo funny and absolutely right ;) :D
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/24228 -
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CommentAuthorLePaposaure
- CommentTimeJul 10th 2009
Funny, yes :)
Less funny, these del-votes from alealeale... so many "bq" (obviously too busy to write it entirely...) every 5 shots, and this mysterious one : http://whatthemovie.com/shot/24113 -
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First off, Efji's Black Barbarians comment is top notch and I laughed for about 5 minutes.
Secondly, I am the one who posted "Boring as all get out" on a Garden State still that doesn't seem to be there anymore. I apologize to the poster. It is not a bad still at all and if you've seen the movie actually has a point. I guess I wanted to cause trouble and I was bored and I got what I wanted when the vote-deletion-comment police named tofeetomas told me not to vote deletion on stills because it was boring and he is absolutely right. Still, I think people are now instead of looking at the still, are looking for ways to get rid of it. They take the little power you give them and they use it for stupid. Seriously, if there are black bars, unless they are huge and noticeable, are not noticeable at all. I'm not on this game to whine about black bars or a little low quality. Some stills yes are lacking sooo bad in quality and need to get gone, but what is it now? A race to see how many stills you can vote bq on? What is that?! -
I totally agree Hurley19. But I think slowly we see it less. I mean you still have some that vote for deletion for small bb but not so long ago, we could be sure many would follow and vote for deletion as well for the same shot. Now it seems most people think twice. But I might be wrong... Mine for instance, it is voted for deletion but nobody followed (yet) and hopefully nobody wont :) It is just a question of educating people and making it more clear somewhere with 2 clear examples of what should be considered bb and not. Then I think if there is an extra shout box, it will also help for the comments such as "from the trailer"...
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Absolutely agreed :)
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I've noticed that from alealeale too. Has someone already wrote him a shout?
And you are right Chrisy and hurley ;)
I had no vote for bad quality, but something made me really think... Have a shout on my shot http://whatthemovie.com/shot/24234
And this makes me really wonder. He could write a shout so this means he knows the movie... so he has to know that a lot of scenes look different and that they are differently graded and blurred a lot... and compressing a file into jpg with a lots of orange and already blurred(especially the persons) isn't very good for a still...
... plus only 17 solves... it's such a shame I so like the still, but I think it won't make it -
A good shot indeed. *Sigh*
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@Phoenix
You don't have to compress it into jpg. I always upload png-files :) -
Oh, I didn't know this was allowed. I thought because pngs are bigger it would be bad for the database if everyone would upload pngs.
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More black bar stupidity, this one seems particularly petty.
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/25368
I cannot see a single pixel lack bar on the left or right. he top left of the picture has a post which makes it almost look like a black bar, but it isnt. And just goes to show, when one person adds a vote, others will follow suit even if it isnt justified whatsoever :/ its a good screen, good quality and definitely NO BLACK BARS :/
any chance an admin can delete their votes? Is that even possible? -
Actually, there *are* black bars on this shot :
But since no black bars would make it only 9 pixels (out of 720, that's 1.25%) wider, do we really care here ? -
- CommentAuthorpippintookberlin
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2009
i am guilty of having black bars again. can please five people vote for deletion of my neon sign shot? than i cut them off...
problem is, the preview is so small... -
@MZ. I cant even see them. Honestly. If you cant even see them theres no need to vote delete.
These people are needlessly spoiling other peoples fun on this site and I think they should have their vote delete privileges removed. -
- CommentAuthorpippintookberlin
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2009
this black bar thing is very tiresome indeed, but in this case i could really have cut them and make the image bigger. you can see it when there's the grey bar "you posted this snapshot" or "you already solved this snapshot"... -
- CommentAuthorpippintookberlin
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2009
oh this post wasn't referring to mine...:-).
anyway...voting vor deletion for mr. zobs shot is ridiculous...earned him my ten points this way...it is a nice shot though. -
@them00ch
I agree with you. Voting for deletion on this one is silly.
But the fact is : there *are* black bars. Look above. This is the shot alone, out of the black WTM frame. Black bars are present. And you do see them, they are not tiny. ;)
But what is silly is that, even with those black bars removed, the shot would look almost exactly the same once it's put into the WTM frame...
Look at this link : http://siboul.free.fr/wtm/red-index.html
I made it to try to explain *why* black bars should be removed and *when* (like on this one above) it's just not worth it. And I turned the black WTM frame into a red one, in order to clarify what's going on. -
yes pippin it wasnt directed at you, your shot does have quite big black bars heheh. I have added a vote delete as you have requested. Its a great shot so once you have removed the black bars please upload again!
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@MZ, obviously I can see the top and bottom black bars ie the letterbox bars, but the tiny black line it creates on the left and right is so tiny I cant even notice *those* is what I mean, as you have elaborated in your post above. I have read your post and I do understand it.
I stand by it. Its overly petty and we would see no real benefit in this case of removing the black bars. All these pointless votes are doing is alienating people, who are in turn, potential future donators to the site. If I was new to the site and uploaded a couple of near-perfect shots, and they got deleted for these petty reasons I would think twice about bothering in future.
I'm sure we are singing from the same song sheet - its just a question of semantics. Obviously there are black bars in this letterboxed still, Im not disputing that, but really there is no difference in the result in this case if they were removed. -
I thought Naut already gave his opinion on this....
What is the problem with BB if the shot almost fits? The answer is: none!
It is a problem when it is too big so yes this voting for deletion where they are tiny is totally stupid and irritating. I second Them00ch, this is spoiling the fun
Oh @ pippintookberlin, when you have your preview, if you click on the image, you will be able to preview it normal size before you post it, that's the perfect way to double check before posting them.... -
- CommentAuthorpippintookberlin
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2009
thanks chrisy, there's still much to learn about wtm2... -
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CommentAuthorpadvinder95
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2009 edited
Although I do agree that if the black bars don't shrink the image (because the aspect ratio is wrong) it's not that bad and not worth a vote-delete, I also think that when you are posting a new still, it is not really much trouble to open your picture in Paint (or whatever substitute you use) and cut away all black bars. That way you at least know for sure there a) won't be any black bars now and b) won't be any black bars in the future, whatever the layout of WTM becomes. -
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I'm pretty sure you were one of the people who voted to delete that particular image padvinder, so that one obviously was worth the vote delete. I apologise if I am wrong but I cant check now because its gone. Been deleted. A good still with a high score deleted for no good reason other than the image could have been 9 pixels bigger.
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to be honnest, I think this deletion power should no be given to everybody but to only a few members maybe that's the solution cause it will always get out of hand, you will always have new players who dont necessary know what is considered bad or not....
But it is a shame Them00ch, this shot didn't deserve to be deleted at all!
@Padvinder95, it happens to me a few times that I deleted the blackbars in paint, nothing to cut anymore and still there were some showing on WTM, as big as the ones from them00ch's shot. And to be honnest, now I dont always bother because if the shot is fitting almost, really, you may ask: what is the problem with that? Does it do wrong to the game in any way?? When you started to play and went through these shots, did you bother about these small black bars before they were even mentionned? I would be surprised if you would have.... Let's not exagerate -
@Chrisy, just to clarify, it wasnt my shot, it was akreische's.
http://whatthemovie.com/user/akreische/
Since all the previous threads and comments, I always delete the letterboxing now, even though in the majority of cases it probably doesnt need it.
But it annoyed me anyway so I thought I would have a rant about it :) -
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CommentAuthorpadvinder95
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2009 edited
@them00ch: If you're pretty sure but can't actually know, please don't comment on it, because actually I didn't delete them. "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups" is what we're taught here ;-)
@Chrisy: WTM has a fixed sized box for the stills, with a certain aspect ratio. Uploaded pictures are displayed as big as possible inside this box, so if the still is narrower or higher than the box, there will be black bars (the "background of the box" showing through) on the sides, and when it's wider, there will be bars on top and bottom.
But, if you leave black bars in the image, say on top and bottom, it is possible that the image is now higher than the box (because of the added bars), so it gets the WTM black bars at the sides for not fitting in the box.
The only way to make absolutely sure there are no *extra* black bars is to cut them out of the picture - WTM will then display it as big as possible, possibly adding black bars because the box size/ratio is different.
Also, I don't vote delete (anymore) on tiny black bars. And no, I don't really bother about them, but the reason I did vote delete for them before, is that I'm not really bothered about someone exceeding the speed limit by 5 km/h (or mph), but if I were a cop and was supposed to be keeping an eye on people abiding by the speed limit, I would tell them to drive more slowly.
However, from comments from other users I got, I realised that just 5 km/h should be allowed. Compare it to the Dutch "gedoogbeleid" on drugs: although it's officially forbidden to possess drugs, it's allowed to have a few grams of pot on you. ;-) -
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@padvinder.
Like I said in my post, I apologise if I am wrong but I cant check now. Because I had seen your name on *so many* vote deletes I thought you had on that one. Considering the circumstances I hope you realise that was a fair assumption to make. However I take it back and apologise if you didnt.
Also I dont think you need to lecture anyone on aspect ratios. Everyone here knows already, and MisterZob made a very good page explaining it for the people that didnt now. That isnt the issue. The issue is that people are excessively using the vote delete on pictures which could be like 3 pixels bigger, and thats ridiculous. Yes you are right they *could* remove the black bars and make the image a couple of px bigger, but people *could* also stop using the vote delete for such petty things, spoiling peoples hard work and fun. This is a website designed for people to have fun and compete after all.
Straight from Naut's mouth
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* CommentAuthor naut
* CommentTime Jul 2nd 2009
that's my opinion as well. As long as there are no enormous bars, it doesn't hurt anybody."
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That should be the final word.
The speed/cop analogy is also not really comparable. A more fitting analogy is the policeman taking the person all the way back home to start his journey again for going 0.2km/h over the speed limit. Would be pretty annoying wouldnt it?
I will stop there, because I can see you have said you will stop doing this, and I appreciate that and thank you, as will all the people whose images will no longer be deleted for no real reason. If you can find some magic way to stop all the other people from seeing things like that, it would be appreciated also ;)
obviously pictures that have massive black bars on all sides still need to be voted off, just use a bit of discretion. -
@padvinder The big issue is that every few days there is another person who gets the vote delete priveledge, vote-deletes anything with any black bars, then has to scolded by us (the forum regulars). We understand why you vote-deleted, and we are glad that you don't anymore. But next week someone else will start doing it, and we'll do this all over again.
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My question is: Who in the hell goes through these stills looking for black bars? How about looking at the actual still for Christ's sake! I swear I don't pay attention unless it is so in my face I can't miss it. I know this has been said before, but this is a case of people without real power in their life taking it out on this site. It is ruining everyone's good time when they go to their still and see that little skull and crossbones lit up red. And every time I see one I click it so I can roll my eyes at whatever "Black Bar" Gestapo has decided to write BB on it. Give it up already! Play the game, solve the stills, and quit yer bitchin'!
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- CommentAuthorDiedEnFreek
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2009
@hurley19 : Well. Imagine that you buy a new power tool. What happens next? You want to use it to see how it works and what you can do with it :)
Sadly the same goes for the delete button :( -
Check this out, the image in question has been fixed and reposted, and now everyone is vote-deleting because its a repost :/
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/25730#
People who have already voted:
* LordMyst : repost?
* pspan : yes
* MadMarky : repost
* tilda : repost
You cannot trust everyone with the power to delete, it just isnt working.
EDIT^^^^ That comment was directed at the people who deleted the image in the first place, sorry for the misunderstanding.
If I was akreische I would be fuming, poor guy.... damned if you do, damned if you dont. -
Agreed, this is the perfect example why not everyone should have the vote-delete privileges IMO.
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he I'm sorry about that
i didn't read this topic today
I saw the same picture I saw last time. I didn't knew it was fixed
I see there are now HUGE TAGS,
in the future please put a tag when you upload the movie. So that people can see that is is a fixed photo and not a straight forward repost.
cannot trust everyone?????
is a bit harsh by the way