Basically, I tagged a bunch of screenshots with "Famous Actor = Bad Screenshot" http://whatthemovie.com/search?t=tag&q=Famous+Actor+%3D+Bad+Screenshot to raise awareness of what I think is bad practice: uploading screenshots that are basically headshots of famous actors. I think they are way too easy *and* boring. It's not that they are easy that bothers me, it's how they are easy - you only have to know that Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise, and you can guess any one of his movies. This, coupled with the fact that most of these screenshots are not showing any interesting part of the movie makes me think they are not deserving of WTM.
On the other hand, these aren't hurting anyone per se, but this does bother me. At them00ch's suggestion, I will be removing my tags, but I would like to do something to help improve the quality of the uploaded shots.
I suggest that we take the guidelines that were (and still are) in the FAQ and include them with the submission rules. These are:
> Your shot is not intersting. 1. Try to search the whole movie for the real best snapshot. 2. Shots, which display the main characters of a movie are often rejected, because you can easily look for their names on IMDB, and simply enter every movie. 3. Don't post shots, with people waving guns in front of the camera. We already have plenty of those.
There are also a bunch of examples of good screenshots in the FAQ.
Personally I think it's better to list the movies here, that to use tagging like that. "famous actor" would kind of go, i think, since people would know it's a famous actor and it could be fun to find stills with famous actors, but "bad screenshot" shouldn't be in tags.
but you raised a point in the forum too and perhaps a good one. You say "you only have to know that Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise, and you can guess any one of his movies" and it's true. so in that aspect the still maybe is not interesting. On the other hand : http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21512 is a famous actor too, and only thirty something people seem to know him, let alone appriciate the still. (i think the still deserves more credit than a 5)
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21267 isn't hard either, but still i like it. it's a nice still to look at and that is worth something too. the quality of a still shouldn't alwaye be how ward it is to find. an easy shot that tells it all can still be nice.
but it would be good to think, when you upload a still, if it has "quality". like http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21680 is a famous butt, but the still is nice.
I agree with you about the tags - I was trying to use the tags to promote my message, which is not what they are for. Unfortunately, I think only a small percentage of users looks in the forum (I may be wrong).
As for your examples (the first two I looked at but did not tag them - I explained my system for choosing which movies to tag in a post in the tag thread):
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21512 - This is a famous actor, and it's odd that more people haven't gotten it, except for two things. First, new movies always get many more solves than old movies of similar quality. From this, I conclude that this community is either skewed towards younger people, or skewed towards remembering recent movies. Either way, they are less likely to remember a star from the previous generation. Second, this movie title has one of the few punctuation marks that WTM cares about, which makes it easy to think you guessed every title in this actors imdb page, including the appearences as 'Self', and convincing yourself that you're really, really dumb. (Try it yourself - guess the title without punctuation).
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21267 - This is an obvious picture, but the actor is not a superstar - unless you saw this movie, you probably wouldn't know who it was (even if you knew the actor). And, he is making an interesting face (different than his expression for most of the movie).
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21680 - I have no problem with this shot. In fact, it could include her face, and the title of the movie and it would be ok with me.
Just use the shout-box if you'd like to comment on a movie-still that's too easy. No need to abuse the tags IMO. Half of the movies you tagged, I didn't solve because I haven't seen them and I'm not taking the trouble to use the actor's imdb-movie-list for that purpose.
For me, there is no discussion. WTM contains shots with famous actors since its creation. There have been obvious shots, without any research of fun, and nice ones with good moments in the film, funny faces, little hints... This is a part of the game. An uploader can post a famous actor or character, no laws forbids it. This is a question of taste. And to judge it as a "Bad Screenshot" is a subjective and unfair thing. I'm not talking about creating a tag about that. I'm not going to tag a shot "GORE CONTENT = bad screenshot" if I don't like Gore films. And to finish, to have easy shots with famous people is a necessary attraction to gain more young and new players.
I actually really enjoy seeing a very famous person from a more obscure movie or role that I may not have seen or have forgotten that they were even in . . . for example a shot of Jack Black from Mars Attacks instead of School of Rock . . . but I do agree it should at least be an interesting shot as possible . . . either way is ok though, I just take them as the equivalent to the $100 questions on Who Wants to be a Millionaire . . .
I like siren34's comparison with the 100$ questions. And I think it's good that some shots are really easy (that way people that don't know much about movies can play too, they just look for the easy ones).
This shot would not have met my criteria as laid out in the tags thread, where this debate began: 1. Have super famous actors on them, whom most people can easily identify (not actors first movie, not actors from the 40s or 50s that everyone should know, but probably doesn't) 2. Have the actors full face showing, without costume or even large glasses. 3. Have a large number of solves (relative to time since uploaded). 4. Are not an interesting or important scene (eg, this got tagged: ->link<- , but not this: ->link<-)
This shot is interesting, doesn't have his full face, doesn't have many solves, and this actor isn't 'super famous' by my definition (though clearly famous).
While I understand LaPaposaure's point, I think there can be a problem because of the way WTM is setup now. Since only a limited number of shots make it through each day, and users tend to vote for movies they know, there is the potential for WTM to get much easier as the number of screenshots per day increases. I think we need to make it clear what we think are good practices for screenshots for new users. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on this, so we would only need loose guidelines. As far as famous actors go, I think the question should be: Would this screenshot be interesting if the famous actor were replaced by an unknown actor?
However, extreme action might not be needed right now. The screenshot that really bugged me the most was a headshot of Daniel Craig from Quantum of Solace that didn't make it to FF, so maybe the masses have better taste than I give them credit for. Also, if easy shots become the norm, I think users will get upset and start giving 1 star to every easy movie. Democracy does address issues, but it sometimes takes them awhile.
Astradodo, Do you know it's only a game ? So, it's also fun to recognize a famous actor or very famous movie. I play only for fun. So, if you put only anonymous actors or very difficult scene of a film, it will be particulary boring.
More, i'm in the top 20 since march, so I think i'm a good player, but I've seen two tags "famous actor..." on shots where I hadn't recognize the actor... Be famous is particulary different if you're french, english, bulgarian or japanese....
At least, I think "What the movie" is the best game I ever play on the net. It's fun because it is difficult and easy, because the player are differents and because there is "no boring rules".
At first, sorry my poor inglish! At second, @CW I could not agree more whit you, thanks!
So... The evaluation of the shots is something that has taken my sleep ... Is there anything more subjective than evaluation? At rank one shot what that we should consider? Composition? Photography? Performance? Costumes? Direction? Difficulty? Why the shots very difficult with less than 10 resolveds are better than obvious shots with more of 1000 answers??
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/31038 this shot is as easy as the previous one, has an actor as recognizable as the previous one, is an important moment of the film, has good makeup and photography and yet it's not uploaded, simply because it is easy ... Paradox not?
Only one recent example of how much is subjective and personal the evaluation ...
When I take a shot in a movie to upload, I don't care if the actor are famous or unknown, or whether it will be easy or dificult to hit, but if the shot is good, trying to combine photography, composition, performance, costumes, etc ...
If easy shots receive high marks for reaching out to fatured films, why as I see a most difficult shots whit few answers in ff? I have hit fewer shots, but I think they are getting better!
And we must remember that not all users live in capital ... I live in the interior of Brasil! Honestly, you do not have the slightest notion of how difficult it is to consume film that is not produced in Hollywood. One example, on the rental that I attend there are shelves of action, drama, comedy, romance, etc., and non-Americans! To watch some movies I'm forced to buy the DVD or download from the internet, but most is lost in time and space!
But what bothers me most in the new system is the parity of votes. I do not think anyone is better than anybody but some have more experience on the site than others ... If the vote on who hits a shot is worth more than those who did not resolve, I think the votes could have different values in accordance with set hierarchy...
Besides that annoys me deeply to see a person who never bothered to post a shot criticizing the shot of users that have a constant posting!
Ah, the repetition of the obvious on shouts is also tiring ...
Quote # camilapilla "Besides that annoys me deeply to see a person who never bothered to post a shot criticizing the shot of users that have a constant posting!"
AMEN.
Quote #CW "More, i'm in the top 20 since march, so I think i'm a good player, but I've seen two tags "famous actor..." on shots where I hadn't recognize the actor... Be famous is particulary different if you're french, english, bulgarian or japanese...."
AMEN. (It happened to me too, I saw the tag "famous actor" and I was like : "WTF?! Am I supposed to know this guy?"
Even though that kind of shots are easy, the purpose is also to post "cool/awesome" shots. I personnally dont care if's another obvious Matrix/Reservoir Dogs/Transformers shot in the end.
On the other hand, just posting a random Brad Pitt pic "because"... In that case, the vote will do its job in the end.
Just wanted to reactivate this thread. If you look at the NS now, you see a lot of face shots. While not always of famous actors, i find these shots a little boring. Is this just me, or is this also bothering other players
Well i think the answer LordMyst is it's okay cause he's not the only thing in the picture, there are hints and he has a costume haircut. If you want to create rules with context it's gonna get difficult for nothing
If you're not happy with a shot, and especially if it's an obvious shot, vote LOW! Your vote counts for 3 and move on. Or shout something and move on.
On the 50 shots that go through per day, there are extremely hard one and extremely non obvious ones... even unsolved ones.
This discussion is (I think) useless, most of the "famous actor" shots that go through have a value because they just make you remember that it's a probably good/bad movie experience... And if the shot got through well at least you vote 1 and had an easy point :D
yes exactly Zythux, I really dont feel like copy pasting from IMDB, these shots I really dont bother and I just vote low without solving them, so they wont count for 3. I find these shots totally uninteresting and boring! Lordmyst yours is different, something else is happening. But, yes there is nothing to do except voting low for these. And, It can be that some people enjoy these shots, there should be shots for everyone after all
@ Castaka Can you tell me how http://whatthemovie.com/shot/34176 would have any value for good/bad movie experience. Or for the site in general? It's true that you earn easy points with these kinds of shots, but this game/site isn't about scoring easy points. In my opinion, this site is about trying to solve good/beautyfull/funny, and in other words awesome shots of movies. The feeling you get when you solve a difficult/subtle shot like http://whatthemovie.com/shot/30240 or http://whatthemovie.com/shot/28710 is what I play this game for. Not to solve the 500th Johnny Depp/Brad Pitt/Matt Damon etc etc shot. Now I am not saying that ALL face shots are bad, but i'm just asking for a bit of selection before someone posts a face shot. http://whatthemovie.com/shot/20399 or http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21154 or the shot that LordMyst posted show a face, agreed. However, they show more than just a simple face. Something else is happening/visible in that shot. It's not a sole face in the picture.
I could not agree more with you! I think the close on stars is very boring... What makes me even more angry when we see a shot like that http://whatthemovie.com/shot/31026 or that http://whatthemovie.com/shot/33706 and always have someone to say that it is easy and obvious. .. Is obvious that this shot is obvious! Is so obvious as to say that it is obvious! But it is impossible to say that shots are bad and/or boring! As I have said many times, I do not think all the shots have to be difficult, indeed, I do not believe in easy or difficult, but in good or bad!
I don't agree with the premise of a shot of a famous actor is always easy to solve. For example I just post this shot http://whatthemovie.com/shot/34341 . The actor is very known but the movie is difficult to find even using IMDb... So I think it depends of several factors but finally the fact is that there will be people that like this kind of shots and people that not. It's just a game.