Vanilla is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
-
Does anyone have advice for good uploading strategies for WTM 2.0?
Here's some ideas:
-If your upload has a low score, delete it and submit a new one (this way you don't have to wait 2 days to submit a new one if you have 3 movies queued)
-Upload three movies at once to increase the chance of one being accepted (I'm not sure if this works, as the acceptance algorithm is still a mystery to me)
Other thoughts:
-I try to choose either interesting but obscure scenes from well known movies or iconic scenes from lesser known movies
-I never post famous actors faces and rarely post main characters faces
-I personally only ever vote a 1 or a 10 - this makes my vote count more (I think)
-Are there protections against gaming WTM with extra accounts for extra votes? I know those of us that spend time in the forum wouldn't do this, but I know most sites where all users have voting privileges have trouble with this. -
include, in order of importance,
Boobies,
Gore,
Explosions http://whatthemovie.com/shot/20869
Johnny Depp.
A combination of the two guarantees a place in FF, even if it has a relatively low solve rate http://whatthemovie.com/shot/21490
If all else fails just make it really obvious what the film is, and it will also sail through with completely undeserved high rankings :) http://whatthemovie.com/shot/22043 -
For the extra account to get extra votes, someone would need to spend a veryyyy long time to do so, because you need to have solved 50 to be able to vote in the submission. I'm not saying it is impossible and that nobody does it but jezz that person has some boring time to loose and takes all this very seriously lol, especially because one wouldn't make a difference so you would need 2 or 3 accounts or more.... I dont know what jerk would be willing to do this? But that's possible since you would only need to do this once, then you can login and votes as many times as you want....
Maybe increasing the number of shots to solve before been able to vote into the submission would be an idea or something else, not sure what...
As for the strategy I dont really have one, although out of 3 shots, I always try to have one famous but which looks nice, and another one from a movie which very few people will know in the hope that it goes through and that people will wonder what movie it is and will be willing maybe to discover new interesting none mainstream movies. That's my goal, dont think I will succeed (especially because unsolved movies have a very little chance to go through unless someone with special power pushes it) but even if a few will have discovered something new, I will be happy :-)
I always try to be fair with my votes, and it doesn't matter if I have solved the movie or not. I have to be honnest, when I started to play, I also was only giving 1 or 10. But not anymore, because I really dont care how many points I get, my memory is so bad that I will never be in the top 10 (neither the top Hundred for that matter lol). I am more interesting into good original good looking shots going through. I hate famous actor faces with nothing else interesting, you can be sure I give a 1 to these... -
- CommentAuthorDiedEnFreek
- CommentTimeJun 27th 2009
I've posted some quite hard stills, that i thought looked very nice (and are from nice movies, but that is very subjective) but those don't get through any more..
I think (sadly) the best strategy is post easy, but interesting stills from well known movies.
Sin city will do well. And Aeon flux ;) -
@Chrisy
Just for clarification, my voting only 1 or 10 isn't to give me an advantage, just to give shots that I like an advantage. For instance, I always give easy shots a 1 (unless they are extremely cool). -
@diedenfreek.
Aint that the truth! Ive largely given up posting stills from my favourite films, as they never get through. In fact, I would implore any of you to not assume my uploads are films I enjoy. Its quite the opposite in fact in a lot of cases. I have uploaded stills from films that I actually HATED, just because they tick the popular boxes and I knew they would get through. As soon as I finished this little experiment, I included a still from one of my favourite films, and sure enough that didnt get through.
So Im going to stick to the easier ones that appeal to the mass market, regardless of if I hate the film or not.
Yeah I know, Im a sellout :) -
For me the visual thing is very important... the shot has to have something special, a special angle, the colours, a special scenery, a nice or cool visual effect, an awesome or stylish pose of the actor I captured in the still. I wouldn't post stills with headshots of the main characters if you clearly can see the face, if the face is partially hidden or half in the shadow or has a special expression, something special around it or whatever, it can look very interesting and it's harder to guess, so if I post a headshot of a main character than it's something like this :)
My rating is based on all these points too. If I see a headshot of the main charakter with nothing special around it, you can bet I give it a 1... if it looks very interesting and you can't see the whole face it gets more points.
I use all 10 points, not just 1 or 10, because a shot isn't just very good or very bad, you can have so much between it so I think all 10 points should be used =) -
Anyone want to help me delete this snapshot http://whatthemovie.com/shot/22622 so I can upload another? I had high hope for it, but there's no way it's going to make it.
-
- CommentAuthortoffetomas
- CommentTimeJun 27th 2009 edited
If your goal is to have as many uploads as possible, posting easy shots from blockbusters is a good strategy. (But they still have to be a bit good, cause luckily there have been some really bad easy shots that didn't go through).
But I don't like just posting only easy shots. I find it more fun to post a bit harder shots or shots from less known movies. As long as the shot looks really beautiful and/or interresting it has a fine chance to go through, and when it does its more satisfying then with an easy shot from a blockbuster or something, cause that is almost sure to go through...
The problem is with shots that don't look very beautiful, look a bit boring or seem too hard. These shots can be real nice for some people. Solving a shot that looks impossible for most people is much nicer as solving a really easy shot. These kind have a difficult time making it to FF with the voting, cause for the majority they don't look interesting. But thank god we have some people who can push shots through too, they are the ones that should push shots like this through. Like that there will be a good balance of all kinds of shots and i think they are doing a good job lately pushing about 15 shots a day through.
The same problem and solution there is with shots with a clue or an important detail or something. Shots that makes people puzzle and get frustrated if they know they've seen it but can't think of the solution. I like these shots a lot, but often, especially when they are a bit hard, people don't recognise the quality of these shot. So they wont make it through with the voting, but should be pushed through.
Conclusion: I think you should really just post shots you like from movies you like, keeping in mind it has to look nice for people not knowing the movie and really nice for people knowing it, of course. There's nothing wrong with posting easy shots, as long as they are good. But don't give up posting less known movies or quite hard shots from famous movies, remember it's about quality not quantity.
Question:
Is there anybody who has some ideas about the best time to upload? I think if you post at night, you have a slightly higher chance it will go through...
(but i'm not going to stay up all night for that) -
Personally I dont upload just to "have as many uploads as possible". I enjoy the process, like seeing people solve or puzzle over the shot, and I enjoying giving something back, actually contributing to the sites content.
But after all my initial stills were rejected (or deleted by the bad quality brigade) it got frustrating, I realised I wasnt actually contributing to the site. I was just wasting my own time and the site was getting nothing. I realised that in order to help (lets face it the site would not exist if it wasnt for the uploaders uploading content) I needed to do a bit of research into what people actually wanted. If you have a look through my upload history, all the recent ones are fairly easy, and a few from quite terrible films :) but I would like to think also high quality (tend to take my snaps from bluray wherever possible).
I have just decided to forget my real-life film taste, and not let it interfere with me trying to upload high quality stills, so I can contribute to the site.
Unfortunately this site, whether we agree with it or not, is now geared up for the masses. The voting system and the democratic process defines and enables this. This does not leave room for lesser known indie films etc.. Sure the odd shot is going to get through, but they are going to be in a tiny minority, and they generally have to be pretty bloody spectacular looking, or contain some of the variables I listed in the earlier post :) I do kind of hope this is tweaked later, but at present I am simply adapting :)
tomas said : "Conclusion: I think you should really just post shots you like from movies you like, keeping in mind it has to look nice for people not knowing the movie and really nice for people knowing it, of course."
You are such an idealist :) (not saying that isnt a nice quality to have:) ). Many of my favourite films are purely story and character driven and quite often low budget. There are no eye-popping special effects, and sometimes fairly boring cinematography or art direction, this is simply often the nature of indie, character based films. Take "sunshine cleaning". A nice film, completely character and story driven, the only shot of any interest VISUALLY in the film, is probably when they find the blood stained bathroom. I uploaded that still, and sure enough it had an average rating of 3 (!) and didnt make it. 2 people knew the film out of about 80 votes. THIS is the sort of challenging still I think should be being uploaded, but will never make it. Another example would be the arthouse/experimental film "Begotten". Visually its fantastic, and the imagry is shocking. But because its incredibly grainy and black and white (intentionally) the still was swiftly deleted as bad quality.
Dont get me wrong though, if the selection criteria is changed at some point makes it easier for less known (but still high quality) shots go through, I will be getting out my favourite Surrealist, Expressionist and Arthouse movies :) Until then I will contribute to the site however I can.
EDIT: sorry that turned into such a massive post. If you managed to read it all, post on my profile http://whatthemovie.com/user/them00ch and I will send you a cookie :D -
Sent cookie request.
Personally I have big problems finding shots that will go through. I have a pretty big collection of DVDs, but they contain lots of not-so-mainstream movies. And my definition of awesomeness seems to be different than others.
Since my last three shots are going to die for sure, I will now grab some DVDs that are really mainstream :) -
Oh yes I saw the Begotten one, what a shame it didn't go through, one insane flick! Indeed it is impossible for a movie like this to make it to the feature part but for other surealist movies I'm sure you can find some unknown ones which would go through (or at least have a chance to), I posted 2 surealist ones which went through (ok out of 27 uploaded but still) and a few more less known (and by less known I mean they have less than 1000 voters on IMDB) arthouse which also went through and to date they only have been solved by one or 2 players. But yes, they have to look original and "eye poping", else people will vote them low. I totally understand why you start posting things you like less, I also do the same, a lot of my new ones are very famous and not necessarally my favorites but I'm still trying, and with this, I agree with Toffetomas, dont give up, out of your 3, post at least 1 for instance which is less known, you will see after a while you will have some that make it... Even now, if you look at one of the last one from Toffetomas http://whatthemovie.com/shot/22708 it is not very known, it looks great and has a good chance to go through. These will never go with more than 6.5 or something like this, but still can go... And you can still have some that will be pushed through by the admin, I had a few like this too!
So yes, it sucks but there is hope, we have to keep on trying... If we all stop posting less known stills then the game will for sure become less interesting... -
"Begotten" did go through...
-
Link? i couldnt find it and remembered it getting deleted.....
-
20XXX
-
- CommentAuthortoffetomas
- CommentTimeJun 27th 2009 edited
@them00ch: like i said, not all shots need to be visually beautifull or something. Some of the nicest shots for some people can look real boring for most people. Don't just upload shots from movies you don't like cause the people want it. There must be more people liking the movies you like and it would be ashame if they wont turn up on the site. Just try to keep posting your favorite movies especially when they are not mainstream, if you won't maybe noone will ;-)
I do understand your problem, with the voting system visually less fortuned shots from an old unknown black and white movies have a real hard time going through. They maybe wont go through on ratings, but that doesn't mean they won't have any chance, if your lucky they will be pushed through. There are really quite some movies pushed through now, at least 15 a day, so there is still room for lesser known indie films (and always will be as long as people don't give up posting them ;-) ) If i look in the FF i can still see a lot of lesser known movies (for example from my last 6 uploads that were accepted, 2 are only solved once and 1 only twelve times) and also still some black and white shots (ok, not that many)
I hope the vote deletion for bad quality with old movies will get less, people will learn, i hope. Otherwise you have to wait till they've changed this vote deletion, cause that is shit, yes.
edit: I really think it's up to the people with power (all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others) to create a good balance by letting those shots through that don't make it on votes. Shots that are really nice for maybe only a few people cause they are not solved a lot and don't look too interesting at first sight if you haven't seen the movie. Those shots just need this litle push in the back.
But these people with power are not always able to do a good job if they didn't see the movie, they won't always see the brilliance of shot if they don't know the movie. Does anyone know if these people at least see the solutions? I hope so, otherwise they have a tough job judging those unknown and visually less atractive shots.
Anyway, don't think i'm the only one that can't wait to be an EP, but wonder how it will work when there will be many people able to push shots through... -
OK you are right sorry efji. I was sure it got deleted. Was it perhaps resubmitted and pushed through? Might want to edit the posts now so as not to give people an easy point :)
@ Chrisy & Tomas, I appreciate what you are saying and I beg all of you to NOT stop posting lesser known movies. Someone needs to ! but for me personally I am going to be sticking for now to the more mainstream movies, because I am weak and I cant stand the frustration of quality shots not going through :) . If you have a look through my upload history you will see that although many/all of the films accepted were mainstream, I still try to get an attractive interesting shot. The site has to have a balance of easier mainstream movies and the lesser-known.
I personally am going to concentrate on QUALITY mainstream stills thats all.
To be honest Chrisy, if your film tastes are what I think they are, then the more mainstream movies are probably going to be YOUR difficult films, and the lesser known arty films will be easier for you than most :) Whats easy for some is hard for others! -
Dont get me wrong, I do watch and can enjoy mainstream, mainstream doesn't always mean bad... or does it? :) but true my film taste is generally more arty, sureal flicks, but I do love many things. But you are right, very often I do struggle (a lot!) on shots that are solved by 500 people or more lol
-
I think it would really be a shame if everyone surrenders to the presumed 'mainstream' preference. If I want to see these Hollywood studio movies with good guys and bad guys I can switch on the television any moment; I don't need WTM for that. Don't change your habits because the present voting system sucks. Make sure the voting system changes! WTM is fun because it offers a wide perspective. If that narrows down I'm sure it will start to lose it's appeal to film fanatics - and those are the ones that will keep the site alive in the long run.
I haven't done much voting until now, because I'm not interested in collecting 'bucks' and because I feel it doesn't make sense to vote for stills I did not solve, but I'll make a start voting '1' for every shot containing explosions, guns, star actors, and other mainstream iconography. :P -
- CommentAuthortoffetomas
- CommentTimeJun 27th 2009
@them00ch: maybe its an idea to try to post a shot from a lesser known or older movie (or anything you think has a small chance to make FF) for every 2 uploads that went through, or something. This is what i do too, of course some don't go through but the least you can do is try, just keep trying. For me it has been working suprisingly well :) -
I have resigned myself to just getting a kick out of people trying to guess my shot for the time that it is in the new submissions area . . I don't want uploads under my name that I personally am not proud of or that I know I just put up to get through (I don't hold it against anyone that does though, not at all) . . . it's all subjective anyway . . . if it makes it through then that is a bonus . . . If I see a cool shot from a lesser know movie that I love, I try to post on the persons page to at least let them know it is appreciated . . .
-
I have kind of the answer to life, the universe and everything !and! the new submission/upload issue,
but at the moment I lack the time to write a monstrous thread explaining it :)
(maybe later tonight) -
Every 42nd still will go through to FF? ;-)
-
naut you have us excited now, please dont leave us waiting too long :)
@Antituur. I think you have me down wrong - I want to contribute to the site and I think the best and most enjoyable way for me to do this at the present moment in time is to upload shots that more than 5 people have a chance of solving :) Dont vote my shots down if its mainstream! :) I still try to make them good shots, even if they are from popular films. Pop films and guilty pleasures can be good too, as long as they arent too obvious. As I said in an earlier post there has to be a balance of mainstream and lesser known films. Granted, I feel the balance is heavier towards the popular at the moment. But since I have just chosen now to concentrate on *quality* stills of popular movies. I am not getting as frustrated, and enjoying myself more.
@toffetomas, I am going to do this I think. This is something that Chrisy suggested and I think its a good idea.
@Siren, I know what you mean but pride isnt necessarily a good thing, ask a Catholic :) . I started off wanting to only upload *my* favourite films, but have realised that there is also a need for quality stills of more mainstream movies. Im not just uploading any old sh** though, they have to be good stills :)
As much as I love arthouse, experimental, indie films etc. I also still occasionally love a no-brainer hollywood movie if Im in the mood. Its not like western mass media has never made a good film. I still enjoy a Spielberg or Ridley Scott movie, Im a sucker for anything sci-fi, and Sidney Lumet is one of my all time favourite directors (although he has done a few crappy movies too!). Im a married man, and my wife has vastly different taste in movies to me. She does NOT appreciate a lot of the films I enjoy. She wouldnt sit down and watch a Tarkovsky or a Kurosawa movie for example, even though for most of us thats *still* fairly mainstream :) However as some of you maybe know, marriage is a compromise, so I will sit down and watch her type of pop movies. Occasionally, I will actually enjoy it too! :) So I just had to compromise here too, and Im enjoying uploading a lot more now.
But I have taken on board what you are all saying, I have decided to upload a couple of my actual favourite movies, bugger it if they go through or not.
EDIT: another wall of text. lol sorry
EDIT AGAIN : just uploaded 3 shots. 2 from classic cinema, and 1 guilty pleasure, much more modern and well known. Lets see how this plays out! :) -
@naut
My suggestion is a very simple change to the upload algorithm:
Allow a certain number of shots to go through each day in each of 'easy', 'medium', and 'hard' shots. That is, if 15 shots go through each day, then make it the top 5 rated shots with 100+ solves, the top 5 rated shots with 25-100 solves, and the top 5 rated shots with <5 solves.
Of course, the algorithm would need to be a little more complicated than this, in case there are only 5 shots with 100+ solves. Something like top X% of easy + top X% of medium + top X% of hard = 15 movies, where X varies each day. -
@ astrododo
On the first read, you're idea sounded quite good :) but I think we'd piss on even more people with this algorithm. It's the shots in between easy, medium and hard that will be lost this way. Imagine a easy snapshot with score 6.5 which doesn't make it because there are higher rated easy ones, while a medium shot with 5.0 does make it. Kind of hard to explain to the crowd (+ it gets even more complicated). -
I tried out them00ch's strategy in the second post. I chose to go with the most important one of all, boobies, and so far it hasn't worked out. But then again, I didn't include any gore och Johnny Depp.
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/22849 -
lol. Needs more Depp, or an explosion, otherwise you've got it nailed.
If it fails to go through upload this one
-
@naut
Thanks for the response. I see what you mean, and agree that it would be hard to explain to the crowd. Nice to know you're watching the forum and considering our suggestions! -
hahaha
-
ha ha ha nice one them00ch
But it's still missing the explosion :) -
loooooooooooooooooool them00ch :D
FedtTony I'm sorry, I gave your shot a 1 ;)
But I'm a woman... so maybe you have better luck with the men voting for your still :D -
them00ch: hahaha! =D
Phoenix: It's cool, I was only trying out a theory, and it failed ;D -
hahahahahaha, very nice! but I miss the explosion and flying extremities them00ch ;)
btw: I'm halfway through my post (1000 words already) but I won't finish it today. Have to get up in 6 hours. -
Hahaha... now I've tried it with a black and white shot from a well known movie http://whatthemovie.com/shot/22859 , but since the people can't solve it, I guess it won't go through ;)(the movie is in colour, just this specific scene is in black and white)
EDIT: But honestly, even if this shot is harder to solve, I think it deserves more than this low ranking *sniffs dramatically* :D -
Depp : Check
Boobs : Check
Explosion : Check
Gore: Check
Awesome : check.
Guaranteed feature film contender. -
lmao... now I bet yours will go through :D
-
Sorry, bad quality...
-
but I took it from the DVD :p
-
I can clearly see some DivX artifacts on that red bar!
-
LOL
But be careful to give away such good ideas. Before you know it they'll make the movie! -
With Transformers 2 done I think Michael Bay is free to direct.
-
- CommentAuthorDiedEnFreek
- CommentTimeJun 28th 2009
Lol. Upload strategy is correct. http://whatthemovie.com/shot/22871 and it has a 7.7 -
- CommentAuthorDiedEnFreek
- CommentTimeJun 28th 2009
I think I know then answer. We all do. Hollywood sets the standard for quality. Is Hollywood says it's a cool movie, all the stills are good movies. It's that simple. -
-
CommentAuthorLePaposaure
- CommentTimeJun 28th 2009
Nice shot indeed. Constrast between blue eyes and W&B beautiful face.
But every shots of this movie have the same caracteristics as this one, and we already have seen better ones, so... I voted a 6/10. -
-
I just uploaded a special Johnny Depp series for your pleasure :)
*duckandrun* -
Maybe we should form a gang and all submit the same movie or actor at the same time, just to make the point to everyone that we are sick of them.
-
@ Deviant
Ahhh now I understand, I was getting crazy on my computer, got so mad I gave them all 1. Johnny depp arghh, Johnny Depp come on not again!!! what Johnny Depp AGAIN Nooooooo!
But they are all well rated, arghh.... -
Hahaha Deviant, since your avatar is Johnny Depp I could say I've just waited for that :D :P
astrodo I give you a big LOL... thats a pretty good idea, we really should do that, and then we name us "What The Movie Gang Is Sick Of" short "WTMGISO" :D -
haha deviant! Can see you are quite the fan :)
I dont think anyone has anything against the man himself, in fact I personally think he is a pretty good character actor. I also am very fond of the movie you uploaded last - the B&W one :)