Quality over quantity ;). But that 3th slot will be missed.

Do not be afraid to grow!

Maybe if there were a larger number of moderators would be easier to manage the site ...

And if Naut and tliff succeeded in making wtm a work for them, where to take their livelihood, also favor the development site! Here in Brazil (and indeed the rest of the world) there are already many bloggers who live from this activity - without selling his soul in return! Perhaps partnerships with major department stores and especially with the film industry (studios, producers) is profitable for all parties!

I understand the need to reduce the up, just afraid it will end up alienating some users - I confess I was a little disappointed because the 3 that I post every 48 hrs only 1 up, imagine posting one ...

But if the sacrifices are necessary, let them!

@Lordmyst and kaylua

Dont make the moderation thing your main focus with this news. At the moment we are handling it OK, we are all on enough to make sure things get dealt with OK. Of the issues, its the smallest.

The main issue is just the sheer amount of images submitted. As you all know (and many people have mentioned this) it is very hard to get a shot through to FF. This is largely due to the amount of shots submitted, and will only get harder and harder as more people sign up and contribute. Lessening to 2 slots should make it easier to get a shot through. Obviously you still have to make sure they are interesting and hgh quality to get through, but statistically it should now be easier.

60-80 images are getting through a day at the moment, thats a lot, and more than enough quiz to keep everyone busy :) If the contests and sidequests take off like we are hoping, there will still always be something to do.

Good news: I'll spend 33% less time watching DVDs, my girlfriend will appreciate!

Always look at the bright side of life ;-)

Well, after all the great updates comes this not so great update. I really think it's not good, I don't like it and think it's not better for the site.

For me 3 upload slots is already not enough to upload all the shots i make, i won't like if it will be only 2 and think there will be more people who think that way and is that not what the site is all about let the users have some fun. Also the quality of the shots won't increase either in contrary it will decrease.

You say everyone's acceptance percentage will increase, but i don't think the percentage matters that much, it's a fact that for the best uploaders the number of accepted uploads will decrease (instead of their awesome shots we get less good shots accepted by other playes). I really don't think its a problem there are 150 shots every day in NS. Picking the best 50 out of a 150 is much better as picking the best 50 out of a 100 shots. The problem is not the large quantity of great shots, the problem is the huge quantity of bad quality shots. With this rule the number of bad quality shots in NS will drop a little but not as much as the good shots there will be relativly more bad shots and some of the shots that will make it to FF will be less good.

When a shot is rejected it's never nice, but when you only have 2 upload slots it will be even worse when a shots is rejected cause you are have less uploads. So I don't think people will be cheering about their higher acceptance percentage.

Then the argument that it's a lot of work for moderators i can't judge too good, but like said in previous post this is not a main reason and i don't think it matters that much.
I really don't think the other two reasons are not valid, like i tried to explain before.

i upload a lot, with this rule it looks like its that's not appreciated. What you're actually saying is, its ok if you upload, but don't do it for us, we're having too much shots uploaded.
if you really want less shots posted, you should focus on decreasing bad quality shots without losing a lot of great shots. Maybe give users who upload bad quality shots a penalty or something

Despite all good intentions and valid considerations for the future, I think it's hard to predict just what the effect of this new limit will be. As a way to limit an unbridled influx of uploads it will undoubtedly have the desired effect, but we'll just have to see what will happen with overall quality and scores. For instance, I'm sure people who care about WTM think about the quality of their uploads, regardless if they are limited to 2 images or 3.

I do however think toffetomas might be onto something with his last remark. Maybe not give out penalties, but make the right to upload something you have to earn. The quality of the game and the site is determined so much by the quality and diversity of the uploads, that I don't think it is entirely inconceivable to police the uploading process somewhat. Maybe by giving the right to upload to users from rank 3 and up. Mind you, I'm just trowing this idea out there. Or maybe there is another way to make sure only people who invest a decent amount of time in WTM, care for it and have been around here long enough to understand what it is about (in all kinds of terms) can keep those uploads coming. And this will also help limit the bulk of NS a bit.

When I read this back, it sounds maybe a little bit too elitist that I mean it to be, but I hope you catch my drift.

@klaas1975:

I know you didnt intend it to be elitist, but that would be the outcome unfortunately. We have as many bad images from people who are higher ranks as people who have just started.

@toffetomas

Im an uploader too, so I know what you are saying. But I can also see that while this change may upset a minority, but have a positive effect on the site as a whole. And when WTM gets to the point when we are getting 200 pictures a day even with this limit, we may have to look at another solution, or change the way it works completely. But right now, this is the best solution. At least run with it a few weeks and see how it goes.

isn't it possible to let people uploading 3 shot every 48 hours, but to set a limit to the number of upload per day? maybe 150

maybe limit upload for people who are voting ? (using the 300 point limit / day should be easy since it's allready implemented)

you can take part in the new shots if you take part in the evaluation

I'm not sure it'll be usefull for reducing the uploaded shots...

Contests would be unaffected, they are treated seperately.

@aknilak. I like the idea but its far from the simple elegant solution we need. And remember we dont want to discourage uploading completely. With that idea people who arent on here all the time may not be able to hit the 300 bucks and therefore wont be able to even try uplaoding.

Well, I think aknilak's idea could be interesting.
You could bind the available upload-Slots to the rank.
Cable Monkeys get 1 upload slot, focus pullers or a higher rank 2, and 3 is available with a even higher rank.
So people get to now the NS-section first before they start uploading high amounts of shots but even starters have the possibility to upload shots which they really like.

Ok, the voting for rights-thing might be really a problem.

Well either which way it goes I'm fine with it. Even as I'm a big uploader I can also live with only 2 slots. The only problem I see is, that the number of mini-series in NS would sink.

I agree with toffe... Reduce the limit of uploads will not increase its quality, it makes total sense his argument ... people who post shots of bad quality are not those that have a consistency in your posts. I consider myself an uploader too and if I had one or two shots deleted for bad quality was too much , and I'm sure the same goes for toffee, m00ch and other major uploaders - who are the greatest affected by the restriction ...

And I agree even more with Klass - even if the idea is elitist - to value more the set ranking ... I think the higher you are in the hierarchy means that the more you are involved with the site, knows its operation and tastes and preferences of users in general, finally, has more safety and experience to contribute to proper functioning.

@razzo both links are the same shot...

Anyway, it is clear that we expect the change and live to feel it's effect ...

Then I would still prefer an upload hierarchy set on FF uploads instead of bucks. For example: start with one slot and get five shots to the FF to get two slots(which can take quite some time, and I'm afraid will still discourage new uploaders). After that get around twenty shots in feature films and earn your third slot.

Okay Zythux, that's a good idea!
The same way it can discourage new uploaders it might encourages some.

Haha checknorisk :P

@Zythux / Holynoise. I personally am against things which put people in different "classes" and would prefer a solution which applies across the board to all users. As well as being simpler, giving everyone an equal set of opportunities is just fairer IMO. And what forerunner said is very valid.

and Kaylua and Toffetomas, OK I concede it *may* not help with the overall quality (although its all theoretical on both sides of the argument - we wont know unless we try it)

- but please remember the quality issue was just a theorised side effect of the change, not its intention in the first place, which is just to reduce the amount of shots uploaded and rejected etc..

@them00ch
Yes, I'm also against different classes. But if there will be any I prefer uploads above bucks.

I think we should just try it for some time, see the effects and evaluate it afterwards.

I cant live with 3 uploads shots as limit either, but could imagine the overflood with no limit :D! I started to upload pictures just before WTM 2 and my number of shots ready to get loaded becomes bigger and bigger ;)! I think the system is good as it is now... And btw I think it's nice that WTM is growing :D

pspan is right, you will have the same chance of getting a harder older shot in as before, if not more. Nothing will change there, us moderators will still be pushing shots we feel are worthwhile, dont worry about that.

More like 50 a day :)

I also had the idea to give back the 3rd slot as a reward for uploaders.
Take away the 3rd slot but as a compromise it could be possible to return it to users who have a certain amount of uploads.

I have some ideas on returning the 3rd slot but they are too complicated and are not realy working out...

This is a difficult topic but the moderators are doing a great job. I can understand the taken measures and I'm Ok with losing one slot.

Hello,

I just started uploading shots to WTM so I currently have many ideas for uploads and not so much slots, but, I understand that there is a big quantity of uploaded shots every day and the moderator's job should be very hard in order to choice the best ones. If it's necessary to cut the number of uploads per person I think that we can live with it. Two slots are better than one, and one better than zero.

Best regards.

@checknorisk: One problem I can think of with this extra slot could be that supporters climb the high score a little faster, because they can upload more shots in a row. Other than that I agree with you. But we need to discuss this a little further.

@LordMyst: Also a good idea.

@Calslaan26: This would make things much more complicated. Also the amount of shots uploaded wouldn't increase, it just means less mainstream movies. And that is a different topic.

I'm another big uploader and I have mixed feelings about reducing the upload slots by one. I can understand the need to reduce the daily dose of new submissions, especially for the future when WTM (hopefully) will grow further.

But I am somewhat anxious about how the quality and movie mix in NS will be affected by this decision. I don't think that quality will improve substantially since those posting bad quality usually don't use three upload slots all the time. I think there are only few affected permanently by this decision, viz. those uploaders that usually have all three slots filled. theoffice911, sohor, LordMyst, deviant, chrisy, toffetomas, them00ch, Asmodai, LePaposaure, holynoise, pspan, bap2008, bazzy3000, razzomega and myself come into mind (there certainly are some more but not that many). However these people usually upload interesting and good quality shots. So losing one slot will reduce the amount of those good quality shots. Average quality would decline. This must not be a problem since there still will most probably be enough interesting and good shots around. However, I think toffetomas is right, there will be a reduced amount of good shot to choose from.

Furthermore, I think reducing upload slots will lead to more mainstream movie stills. Having only two slots will tend people to upload more recognizable shots from well-known movies since they usually get a higher rating. I think this is because of two reasons. First, if an uploader has only two slots he will take less chances and go with the safer shot. Second, easy shots with high ratings get approved by the systems which is usually much faster than the approval of shots with low rating by the admins. After 24 hours in the cue the highest rated shots get through. Admins however, usually push shots which were in the cue for nearly 48 hours. This means, I get more upload slots if I post recognizable mainstream movies.

However, I am not sure how strong these effects will be. I for myself will still post a mix of easy and hard shots and probably most heavy uploaders mentioned above will do the same. So, give it a try but keep an eye on the changements of quality and movie mix in the new submissions.

It goes without saying that I would like an additional slot for the heavy uploaders :-) However, I understand if you won't do that. This would favor long-time uploaders and new users would hardly have a chance to catch up.

I think there's a lot of different things said that are true. Personnally i'm not a big uploader so it doesn't affect me but if i wanted to be it would be much more harder to go to the top (and so makes things uneven for new players, which makes this an elitist proposition for WTM veterans !)

toffetomas states that with a higher number of uploads you will have higher quality pics, i think that's true.
pspan states that harder shots will get through if there's less competition against them. That's also true

But the thing is bad quality shot make it to FF because of their ratings so maybe you should just delay the right to rate shots. let people get points from solving FF, get the whole point of the game and when rank 2 or 3 they can vote on what shot gets through or not. That way i think you'll increase the quality of the shots. Because there's a feeling lately that ratings are getting higher than they used to be (i don't know i'm pretty new to the game)

In term of the number of slots per person, the main issues seems to be :
- the work of admins and moderators (if votes are filtered i think it might be easier)
- the space on servers, well if 150 shots a day go to NS and 50 only get through, it means that 100 shots are uploaded and kept to the server without being useful to the game and only for the uploaders. Maybe the rejected section should be thinked differently, like the shots stay a week only in there. Maybe the number of rejects should be according to the number of upload. That will maintain the 3 shots everybody want and lower the amount of shots on the server. Also the rejected shots could be evaluated, like only 5 or more star ratings would be kept and considered as rejected. The rest would be deleted.
If the people that wanted dearly their rejected shots to appear on wtm, have to weigh it with having less uploads i think they will chose to keep their 3 uploads. Though these are different elements they both involve space. Also maybe every player according to rank might have the right to keep a certain amount of rejects.

That's an idea don't throw rocks at me ^^