@castaka "Personnally i'm not a big uploader so it doesn't affect me but if i wanted to be it would be much more harder to go to the top (and so makes things uneven for new players, which makes this an elitist proposition for WTM veterans !)"
Its not elitist, everyone would be in the same position. Everyone would have 2 slots so would advance at the same rate, exactly the same as now. Granted the people already at the top of the leaderboards got there with 3 slots, but everyone else had 3 slots then also.
still, i think castaka made a point. i've seen the proposal to delay the right to vote in the New Submissions a few times before in the forums. I don't think thats such a bad idea. Now you can go to NS with 50 Feature Film solves. That would probably take you 2 or 3 days (my awesome button gives 400 easy movies in the last month). If you raise the number of solves required, or in another way delay the right to NS, like castaka said, new players can get a better feel for the game, and maybe this would alter their uploads/voting behaviour. Note this is a big maybe, but it's just an idea
Some good ideas, but it doesn't really address the main issue of there just being too many shots in NS at all times. All it would mean is that the quality of shots in NS would (*might*) be even higher, meaning even more dissapointed rejections for good shots :)
I don't know if it is the solution, but it really need to change.
Yesterday, I upload three movies. two winners of a price in Cannes Film Festival and one of the most famous old horror movie. I post these movies because I think it will be great to see others things than "dark knight" or "transporter". Two minutes after, there were always unsolved, but with 5 votes and a note around 1.5. (The quality of the photography is an important part of these movies) It's the same about the awesome, original, incredible uploads by Ren, RDPL55 and others...
Does people want a game with only blockbusters ? I don't understand the spirit of these votes. What is the interrest of WTM if only very easy movies and those who're saved by the moderators (great job, by the way) are in the FF ?
I don't know how explain that in english but i'm tired by this votes. I don't know how is possible to stop that. I hope that people who do that will change.
Does we make a coalition and do the same on every blockbuster shots ? It will be fun. All the movie in the FF with 3.5.
CW, there is IMO really no problem. The mods push through a lot of great shots without many solves and/or relatively low votes. So, keep trying and always try to get an awesome shot. It's not the movie that is rated, it's the still.
I agree with pspan You know CW, there are about half if not more of my dvd collection which I simply wont use, the movies are awesome but unfortunatly the stills are not that awesome, you have to make it interesting for people who wont necessarely know the movie. You need to put yourself in these people shoes, if they see the shot and haven't seen the movie, will they think it is interesting? Of course it has to be challenging for people who have seen it as well. But as pspan said we are rating shots not movies! And about easy shots, I dont think they are a problem: there should be easy shots too. This has been said many times but what is easy to you might not be to other people. Most of the shots which have many votes, they are not easy to me because I dont watch a lot of blockbusters. There should be shots for everyone: very easy, easy, hard and very hard! We, the moderators, try to ignore the votes completelly when we decide to push some shots through, we all have different taste as well which makes the selection quite eclectic in my opinion. So all I can say is dont give up, about half of shots going through at the moment are pushed through so you shouldn't worry too much about the rating but the shots have to be interesting! (I am not saying yours weren't cause I dont know which ones you are refering to :) )
I just try to say that give a 1 to a movie, it's killing this chance to be in the FF (like in school). It would be use only for very bad shots. I'm agree that the game need easy shots, and, believe me, there is lot a of shots with 600 solvers that I haven't (this f**king iron vertebral column for example) because I don't see a lot a blockbusters.
There is a lot of movie in my dvd collection that I never will propose, I allways try to use movie with famous actor, famous photography, famous director or shot with a lot of informations. But I also choose movie who are not in the database or with one or two shots because I want to see other things, others aesthetics.
For example, I don't know anything about Indian cinema but I dream of bollywood movie on WTM, because it will be fun !
Since I play at WTM, I see german or spanich movies because I've seen here some shots who give me the envy to see it. I want to do the same with movie I like, and I want other players do the same. Of course, it includes blockbusters (for example, I see Hancock because of WTM and I discover it was not so bad), but it also includes original movies.
ok CW, we agree on that But in your first post you say that you think only blockbuster make it through because some less famous didn't make it. Look at the FF the past weeks, I think you will see that many less known movies and hard shots made it through. much more than what we were used to see. Ok lot were pushed through manually, but they made it, that's the most important, no matter if the votes were lower than famous shots, I dont think we can change this voting behaviour.
Going back to the topic, I think this is a bad idea and will only punish people who are uploading a lot and a lot of quality shots! I dont think there is really a big problem at the moment. Yes there are shots that dont make it but not everything can make it! and many more hard and less known movies have a chance comparing to before. Reducing to 2 will decrease the number of these less known movies because with only 2 shots, people will take less risk. in that sense I dont think acceptance will rise necessarelly for these movies. People who post bad quality shots will continue to do so even with 2, wont make much of a difference to them. I dont really see any good reason or justification to do this.
And personaly, I could easily live with 2 shots but I just dont think WTM will benefit from this new upload restriction
@CW, that one was really easy, first guess wthout seeing it ;)
Ontopic: I think there are too many shots to rate in NS now and also too many good shots that don't make it. (could really disencourage new users to upload) I don't think uploading behaviour will change that much, because more unknown movies have a bigger chance to get through too. Biggest disadvantage I see is the quality in FF. there will be a little less quality, but it will still be good, so I don't think that's such a big issue.
got it. Finally. Jeez. Sorry about that, back on topic.
@ zythux what i don't understand in this discussion is how the reduction in upload shots is going to affect the quality of the stills. do you mean Not in blockbuster/unknown, but in actual image quality. How will the new rule affect that kind of thing?
I think my reasoning was that if people only had 2 slots, they would try a bit harder to submit the best looking image possible, so the slots aren't wasted.
Of course this is pure theory and may or may not prove to be like that (as is the theory that there will be more mainstream movies etc). We will have to wait and see.
EDIT: sorry I see now that question was directed at zythux's post, my apologies. I cant see how it would effect the quality in a negative way at all.
About the quality, to quote toffetomas (and I think he's right):
'About the decrease of quality, i think this is obvious, if you have less shots to select the best shots the selecting willl be less good. Now you have 150 shots of which you choose about 50, with the new rule those 150 shot would have been about 100 (probably a bit more) from which the best 50 shots are chosen , this selection must be less good. This example hold of course with any number of shots, its just an example.'
But as I said before, I don't think this is such a big problem, because the shots that make it to FF are still good enough and I think it raises the chance for less known movies to get in. Just hope people keep posting less known movies, even with only two slots available.
i read toffefomas' post, but i don't see why the quality should DEcrease if there are less shots to be picked from. Maybe, because there are less shots in NS, people will give them a more advanced look, thereby filtering out the lesser ones.
This all seems a What if discussion to me. I suggest we just try it, and see what happens. We can always give the 3rd slot back if it's needed.
i agree with Zythux's first solution, i mean.. if you start with one or two upload slots you might get dissapointed at first, but better uploaders will keep uploading anyway. this will keep better uploaders uploading and the not-so-good-uploaders will probably stop. As for me, i hate it when my shots get rejected, but it happens to everybody, and if you have some really good shots they will pass through anyway. maybe you can give players an upload rating, so others players can let rate players for how good their shots are, i dunno
as for the 2 upload shots, i certainly will be extra carefull with what shots i upload!
and i became a supporter after the change was made. Not for the extra slot, but because this site deserves a little support IMHO. WTM has the honour of being the first site i ever paid for :P
A small provocation but I think that to decrease the amount of shots you should reject automaticaly the shots of movies that have more than 5 shots in FF (Fight club, No country for old men, Blade runner, Miasaki's toons...) perhaps during one year... it will increase diversity too... @forerunner it's true ! Impossible to upload anything...
@RSPL55, it is already not possible to have movies with more than 5 shots in the FF. There is already a restriction and you have to wait one week to repost the same movie. Since the shots stay only one month in the FF before moving to the archive, there cannot be more than 5! And I think it is fine that way, we already see less of the same movie than we used to.
@ Sorry Chrysy !! I thought in the FF and the archive of course... for exemple "Fight Club" has 21 shots in the archive... it's enough no ?? It could be great to stop accepting shots of this movie during one year... So many many movies in the database have no shots... and a minority have too many I think...
I think that when there is at least one more absolutely awesome shot of the movie that is not yet in the database, there are not enough in the database... Some films are just visually so stunning that they give lots of awesome shots.
Actually I think they are all good shots. They were obviously good enough to be accepted :) I think there are bigger issues to worry about other than the amount of shots from a single movie. The amount of shots will continue while there are still viable shots from that movie.
The recent 1 shot/movie/week rule has done enough to stop films being spammed, it doesnt need to be restricted any further, there is enough variety nowadays for this not to be a problem.
I still don't understand the problem with many shots of a single movie. Solve it, go to the next shot. Why even care? There are enough other shots from less-known movies in the FF.
Sure, it was just an idea to decrease NS. It's sure that to get one point it's easier with multishots of few movies, but a bit boring. I perfer being surprised by a strange unknown movie than to tip 10 time a day the same title but it is just a question of pont of view... So let's close the debat
good, I think we have enough time for us to analyze the change ...
I personally did not like much ... was much more difficult to up shots of movies not so well known ... Control of Unfair Voting behavior resulted in an increase in the General Notes of the films (which is a good thing), increasing the average grade to rise automatically - and as we've discussed many times is not always the best shots have the best grades ...
while the shots selected by moderators continue depending on the tastes of those few brave warriors who, despite doing a good job, also are motivated by subjective factors - not even trying to discuss taste is subjective, personal and not transferable factor.
this way, I wonder if the other uploaders set also felt a difficulty in climbing their shots?! Because I'm pretty frustrated with having been rejected countless shots in the last days ... Because the worst of all is to have rejected two attempts at one time ...
My #38166 got rejected with a 7.50 for example, too bad because I was pretty sure it would make it. I think I've also seen a bond girl getting kicked with a 7.80, so it seems this rating is still getting higher (which also could be a result of more people voting fair after the last WTM Observer)
But this is in no way a result from the new upload limit. Most uploaders have only two slots left (although I've also seen a recent increase of supporters, kudos for that) but I think we're already on the level of uploads before the change, there are many shots uploaded everyday. Because of this there will always be many shots good enough, that simply won't make it, because you can't accept 100 shots everyday.
There will always be people who are disappointed when there shot is rejected (me too), but I know not all shots can be accepted so I go on and just try to upload an even better shot next time.
I already used an awesome upload to put a Miley Cyrus movie, I'm not gonna spend another one for Sandra Bullock... People are gonna be mad at me ! Anyway I thought it was a funny shot (especialy because the half-naked guy in the picture is Oscar from the show The Office lol)