:/

Of course it was a joke or at least it should be.

its very difficult to get an 8 for your shot nowadays

I think there are a lot of people who are voting down if a shot got a high vote
I know in the early days we got the same problem (or the problem is still here?)

but lately I have a feeling that some shots who deserves a 7.8 or more are voting down by some people. The down voters are more then in the early days (yeah I know that wtm is growing so more down voters, but still).
in my opinion some people vote also down because of the uploader
we don't like this uploader so we vote a 1 on his shot (is it jealousy, frustration, etc. I don't know)

for example if a shot got an 8 with 30 votes
and then a 6 with 45 votes (I see this often in the SM, not only with me)
something going wrong here

normally 30 votes is a good estimate for your rating

I know the mods/creators can't do anything about it
its the people of wtm who can do something about it

SO PLEASE PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE SHOT NOT THE MOVIE OR THE UPLOADER
RATE THE AWESOMENESS OF THE SHOT!

There should be a LAW.

IDEA.
A WTMer can't vote unless he already posted 10 accepted snaps.

And when he finally get the RIGHT to vote, well, he's gonna vote fairly because he'll know the drill.
I'm sure it will ease the pain you all seem to have!

That's absolutely right LordMyst and lovelyT. I have been recognizing the same things and it's really a shame that some people just can't respect others... I mean everyone who takes the time for hours and hours to get a really good shot and uploads it, knows exactly how upset you can get if your shot gets votet down like that but still, they don't seem to care :( At least a little respect should be there... but why am I saying this... if there are people cheating just to get their shots through why should they care about anyone else then them.
The really sad part is, that I don't want to know what people like that actually would do if it would be about real money or in real life and not just a game, if they already do things like this in a simple game ^^

Yeah.. Never shows the rate of shot and the name of who posted untill it goes to FF.
It will be a great surprise for everyone.

I believe if you hide the rate the most of voters will vote according their open and clean minds. Some stills were been very well till a few guys start to give 1 to them just because the shots were doing great. I mean all of shots, including my own. If you hide the names it will be nice too.

Well, I just can repeat what I said before, if you keep the votes hidden, they will automatically vote a shot low just to make sure it has a lower rating than theirs... it won't work I'm afraid.
Same goes for "fixing" that you only can give one vote, than they instantly will vote low...
Like I said, this is something you can't change no matter what you try... those people who vote low because of their shots will keep on doing that...
I had one other idea, that maybe could solve this and also the flooded NS thing, but I'm not sure if this is a good idea.
How about uploading is not available from the very beginning? So first you only are allowed to vote(without having any uploads of your own) until you have a certain rank on WTM, like for example 3 or 4.
The NS won't be so flooded anymore and maybe then people first learn how to rate a shot before they can upload one themselves and than they are long enough here to maybe stay fair in their voting behaviour...
Should I write this also in the ideas threat?

I don't agree with the "Vote once and once only" thing, because a lot of time my fixing of votes is just that. I'm a spaz, so it happens fairly regularly that I'll try to click the bookmark button or something, and hit 2 stars instead.

@OhLookBirdies: That shouldn't be the normal case. Have a care! And there's a lot of space between the stars and the bookmark button! :-)
Anyway, it's no problem if you click on the wrong thing. Then Sh*t happens and you keep on solving... and your cursor should be treated with respect.

This method doesn't solve the problem with low ratings, but it is a solution for the problem with looking every shot twice.

Agree with censoring the uploader.

Wait a minute LordMyst... If you are right, this means some people don't like me?! :D Omg O.O I can't believe this! How is that possibe?! *lol* :P

The word fairness pops up quite often in this thread. I'd like to know what generally is regarded as a fair vote? Johnny Depp shots always receive a high rating, even if they're just plain boring, while others that look far more interesting receive a pretty low rating. Just one example and I'm sure everyone can name a few more. This in my opinion I would class unfair. The contests generally seem to be very low-rated, becaus of the copetitiveness.

But in all honesty I do try and be, what I regard, fair. Although I often find myself at a bit of a loss of how to rate a snapshot. It might have great quality, but the content is boring. The colours might be interesting but in a b/w shot there's only shades of grey to admire. There might be a frame of Nightmare Before Christmas posted, which is not on here yet (I do believe there are still slots!), but it's just boring and I struggle to give it a benevolent rating, even if it looks semi-decent.

I guess it is impossible to "train" or force people to vote in a "fair" way. Everybody has a different taste and what might be a 8/10 to me might be a 10/10 or a 5/10 to another. I might absolutely adore b/w shots whilst other people can't get their heads around them.

As it has been stated numerous times before: I think the mods do a very good job in accepting a variety of shots, helping to ensure that everyone's taste is covered in the FF.

Some things I think we just have to live with.

You know, I think the "problem" we have here is that we start to talk in circles, if you know what I mean. Almost everyone active in this forum shares somehow the same view about this topic, that taste is different and so on.
We all agree, that this is just something we can't change.
Like I said before. Let's try to be fair ourselves when we rate shots. I think it's the best we can do at the moment under this given circumstances.

@LordMyst: 30 votes you say? My 1-voters are much faster than yours :)

I managed to capture one of them in the act:



Gettem! Make em suffer!

Back to topic: I like the idea of not knowing who posted the shots and thinking "this looks like a shot xyz could have posted". I don't think I made the people hate me enough already to vote my shots low, so I have no reason to complain about rejected shots. But I see no need for the uploaders identity to be a part of the vote-decision (or the one of the mods ..) You can not avoid this as long as the names are shown. Everybody should have the same chance no matter if he is a top uploader, a respected member of the wtm-society or even Palahniuk.

It won't make any difference if the name is hidden or not... believe me and I have to second what naut said
"There’s a lot of communication going on beneath shouts, often with the uploader involved or people saying stuff at the uploader’s profile.
Also the little thumbnails at your profile, showing which of your shots are in NS..

All that would be lost. "
And he is right with that. I for myself can say I really would like to keep this. And believe me I really don't think it's about the uploader, how a shot is rated.

oh and P.S. @LordMyst Thanks for your really nice words =) I forgot to say that in my last post ;)

fnick, your shot is just amazing, how could anyone vote a ONE?

well, it's tricky, people have been doing this of voting low ever since I joined WTM and all, and for me it's just unfair.
i for instance, i vote mostly because of the WTM bucks, since I don't write many reviews(planning on change that) and i think it's sad that shots are geting 1's when they obviously worth a lot more =/

@shantak

Based on what I read above, the idea was not to show the uploader in NS at all.
And even if you showed the name after the voting process, I’m sure the "bad boys" have a quick glance at the name and change their vote.

All in all, it’s just a tiny fraction who votes 1 on a shot. I just checked a few shots in NS and it was below 5%

Make it public! :-D Every voter will be listed with nick and rating.... would be awesome! :-D

@naut
"All in all, it’s just a tiny fraction who votes 1 on a shot. I just checked a few shots in NS and it was below 5% "

Actually 5% 1 voters is an awful lot when calculating an average.
Example: a shot gets an 8 on 95% of the voters and 5% 1 votes.
Final score: 7.65
Right here is the difference between making it to FF or not.

I think there should be a mathematical solution here, I'm pretty sure they have one on IMDB for instance, as the actual rating is not equal to the average rating.


I'm not quite sure how they do it but I think the weighted vote of each user somehow depends on his average vote.
for example if a user votes 3 on average, than 5 is actually an 8, and 1 is actually a 5. Or something like that.
Though it will probably not be so easy to implement, I guess.

I'm with Asmodai on this one. Why should you have a scale from 1 to 10 if you are not allowed to use 1. Most of the times I rate between 4 and 7. Exceptional good or exceptional boring shots get 8-9 and 2-3, respectively. And in only a few cases I will go with a 10 or a 1. So I guess my average rating will be around 6.

If you don't want the extremes to influence the rating too much you can use the median but this has the disadvantage that you only have 19 possible values (1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 to 10). As far as I know the weighting of IMDB ratings is done by giving a higher vote to regular users. This could be done here, too. Give people with higher ranks a higher weight in the formula. However, I think it would complicate things since the result cannot be followed anymore.

And as I said before, I really don't think there is a problem with unfair voting. I also see the phenomenon that my uploads usually start with a high rating which then gradually declines. However, I think this is because the first few solves usually come from people who are frequent visitors of NS. And people who tend to rate in NS once in two days are more likely to rate a shot later on. It's also likely that the rating between those two groups differ. So I don't see any problem in this decline and I really don't think people systematically punish a specific uploader. At least my rates range from 6 to 8 at the moment and I don't see any pattern. Shots I thought were great only get a 6 and other shots I doubted to reach FF were rated 8. You just have to accept the fact that your preferences and taste doesn't automatically match those of the majority.

And on this you have to trust us mods: it rarely happens, we check! Plenty of users who give the occasional 1 to shots they don't like, but nobody is consistently voting 1 on other people's shots. And when it happens, we DO find out.

@Asmodai: i agree that the 10 voting-step should theoretically lead to an average rating of 5.5 with good shots above 5.5 and not-so-much-liked shots below 5.5. But this is not reality. It doesn't matter when you vote this way cause i'm sure you are voting every shot so it does not make any difference in the end.

But when I started rating I realized that shots are mostly rated between 6 and 8 like shalev said. So if a shot ist not brilliant, but I like it then I would actually punish it by an overaverage rating of 6 or 7 cause I do not rate every shot. This is why I startet rating like probably many voters - 8 till 10 for good shots, 7 for average shots, 5 -6 (seldom below that) for shots I don't like and 1 if Michael Schumacher is in the shot.

The only Problem is that if you love a shot you can just give 3 points above the average, but people who hate it can push it down with 6 points below the average. So the rating of shots can sink rapidly in a short time period and uploaders are sad - even if the votes were just honest opinions.

A possibility to change this (and I am not saying it is extremely necessary to change it) would be to unify the rating behaviour e.g. by changing the voting-system to 5 steps and announcing a voting-explanation like:

5 - Absolutely Awesome shot .. I'm jealous I didn't take it
4 - Wow, nice one. Hope it makes it to FF
3 - Average shot like I see them every day
2 - OK, but it wouldn't hurt, if it gets rejected
1 - Well, no.

But as proposed before it would surely already help to get an overview on the amount of 1, 2, .. 10-Votes of your own shot. People would be much happier if they saw how many 10-Votes they got even if the shot gets rejected with 7.5 Points. And hiding the uploaders names maybe wouldn't change anything in voting but nobody could ask himself if the votes are bad because of him.

I disagree. I think that is an okay shot, but nothing more than an okay shot that deserves the rating it has gotten. So you see, tastes differ, or on what would I be jealous?

As often said: results of the past are no guarantee for the future. Ratings themselves DON'T matter, only relative ratings do, and even then it depends on the voters, maybe someone who really hated the shot when you posted it is away on vacation, and we got two new users that love the shot.

Your last issue, imo, is very not true. Just think of Harry Potter. (Did they play in something else as well?). I haven't seen Remember Me, so haven't solved any of the shots in NS for this, but I can say that I see a whole bunch of faceshots of the actors you are referring to, both for twilight as for other movies, and from me these all get a standard 1 for being character shots. If people post great shots from movies with these actors, then I will also rate great. Also, I did some googling for pics and watched the trailer of Remember Me, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of those movies that is hard to get great shots from, pity, but it happens and there are more of these. It can be possible, though, that some users just keep uploading shots of it with the face of whatever-the-boy's-name-is, so they can drool over it (same with Robert Downey Jr., Johnny Depp, George Clooney and on the other end of the spectrum we have Penelope Cruz, Scarlett Johanssen and Megan Fox).

"Yes but when Cruz's boobs are on it, it goes through :)"
Naturally. ;)

"Seeing what gets to FF I assure you Remember Me has great shots:)"
As I said, I haven't seen it, so I can't judge on it. I can merely say that I have seen some shots with the guy that weren't twilight and were boring.

"I haven't seen any Clooney shots lately. I would be the one to 'drool over' them as you subtely put it, but sadly there are never any in NS :D I think giving 'character shots' 1 is pretty unfair, though, there are some great shots from the movie like that and what just because it's easy it deserves 1? ->link<- I think this one is awesome, hence I uploaded it and I don't care if her face is all there is. 13 favorites, man :D But everyone votes differently I guess. "

No, it deserves a 1 because character shots are supposed to be uploaded in the character section of movie pages, NOT in NS, hence the name. The shot you posted is indeed quite a good shot, but not really a character shot. There is more than just a face staring at a camera here. There is a difference between character shots and other face-shots, imo. Character shots I give 1, the rest depends on the quality and awesomeness of the shot.

@efji - you're right, but this detail is so small, that people just don't see it, and vote low. I admitt that I see it after closer looking at the shot. And I think this is a reason, why really interesting shots are rejected - people don't look closer, just one quick look, and they go to next one. And if they don't know the movie (or the actor)- vote low.

@rulo
It's a headSshot :)
2 different actors, quite popular in France. The right side died the day before Mr Zob posted it...