@issob05 if the idea is the speed-rating to get higher ranks faster...what not rating all the movies 10 instead of 1 ? Anyway the best part of wtm is still to solve shots...That's what I like the most.
@dizz it's not that the whole meaning of this is speed rating. I felt, for some time, the urge to get a better rank so i could enjoy WTM a little more... i never aimed to be on the top of the rank. and i don't agree about giving all shots 1 and only giving 10 to my shots. Since i felt that way, maybe some people are felling the same and causing all this trouble. About giving 10 bucks for each vote... People can earn 300 Bucks per day, it seems that the way they(or at least some) chose to get it is giving a low rating. Then again, like i said, "paying" more for the votes can cut in half the amount of shots and i guess it should improve the quality of rating people give. About your question... rating all the movies 10 can still cause some sort of problem. it might help for now, making people less angry. Besides all of that i must say i totally agree with you, the best part of WTM is solving shots!! :)
" People can earn 300 Bucks per day, it seems that the way they (or at least some) chose to get it is giving a low rating " I'm sorry but I don't understand the idea to earn Bucks with low ratings... Their idea is just to have THEIR own shots accepted in FF and the best way -they think- is to under rate all the other shots... When I said to rate all the shots 10, it was just to insist on the fact that there are a lot of numbers between 1 and 10...and it's extreme to give only 1 or 10, even if we're free to do it (and sometimes it's the only way to change a bit the overall rating). I think everybody wants to get a better ranking (it's still a game) it takes time, it's normal and that's also the beauty of the game... I still think that 5 bucks for just one click is allright...
Yeah, I try (when I've got the time) to make my 300 a day. Means I spend time rating the movies. Well, not hours, but I take a few seconds, depending on how fun the shot is to me (yeah, that part is partial), moderated by how good the shot is (over any other consideration). For example, a big fat shot of Johnny Depp will end up having a 2 or a 3. If that shot is funny, I can go to up 6.
The shot of a PC screen showing windows in arabian... That's uncommon. I'll give it a 7 or a 8.
A shot with a trick or a gag (ie, name of the movie in the shot), if it's well done and beautiful, well, 9 or 10. ie : http://whatthemovie.com/shot/37343
That's not a hardcore rule. My mood kicks in too.
Anyhow, all that just to say that what I consider be a complex system takes me, let's say, 2 or 3 seconds a shot. The time for the page to load, me to point at the ranking starts and that's it, I have voted. That's not much longer than simply voting 1...
Wasn't all this about the awesomeness of the shot REGARDLESS how you felt about the movie? Or how you feel about the actor, for that matter? If Depp's Daily happens to be an awesome looking shot, I rate it accordingly with an 8 or higher. So there : P
btw, a nude Depp has a rather high possibility of looking awesome in my modest opinion....
@ dizz, "and sometimes it's the only way to change a bit the overall rating"
this is what i don't understand. You don't have to change the overall rating. It's hard to change because it IS the overall rating. And if your vote doesn't change that, that is okay. The rating is what all (or at least a majority of the NS visitors) think about the shot. If you don't agree with that, thats fine, but the only thing you can do than is give your own vote. You are in no way "entiteled" to change the overall rating.
I don't mean this as a personal argument, but it's something that has been coming back in this discussion a few times.
i have to agree with bazzy3000, the main score for a still to go through to FF is around 7.5 or something. This is quite high i think. Still, the unfair behavior should be handled ofcourse
Maybe it's an idea to raise the number of pictures a person have to solve before getting access to the New Submissions section. Like solving 1000 pictures instead of 50. That way there are longer with the site and it will flesh out the childish voters. Or people can only vote if they are longer then 3 months with the site. I think that will help to discourage the childish voters just upload a shot and give bad rating to anyone but the ones they uploaded themselves. Or only give a specific group of people voting rights. For example only people who have donated. Just some ideas.
But I'm glad that you guys are looking at it. I upload a shot last week and the first rating it got was a 2. Thankfully it climbed up to a 6.3 at the moment. But I don't like it because it's very discouraging to see your shots rejected just because it has gotten low ratings by some childish voters. I have uploaded 6 shots at the moment and only 1 got approved and 2 are still awaiting votes (and by the looks of it only 1 will get approved again). It is a bit discouraging. Like why even bother.
Zythux "(Also people who vote 10 for all solved shots and 1 for all shots they didn't solve) " Any news on this ? If this continues I agree something should be done. Maybe we should not trust the users, sorry to say this... Anyone as ideas on how WTM could solve the problem (if we assume things aren't gonna change from the voters who do this...)
Oh I have got an idea :) Let's say per day we have 3 of each grade to distribute 3x1 3x2 3x3... 3x10 and only once we have used 70% of them WTM consider that we have voted... maybe that would make it a change...
and : not allowing a vote for our own uploads (seemed strange to me that we could vote for our own)
or : limit the number of 1 2 3 and 8 9 10 per person and per day... would that do it ?
or : limit the number of voters per picture, for example 30 per picture and publish the votes next to the picture (like this one, it would be a bomb ^^)
or ask for voters to justify their vote in some kind of shoutbox.... (on my site we have a voting also, but its for new members and only by members of the team, I ask that everyone justify his vote...)
These are just ideas I have right now but would be glad to see what other ideas members have ...
Cotp
1) limit the number of ratings per person and per day (we are already limited from the number o
I believe this is probably a bot script and not people actually voting and scanning every shot as soon as they appear on the ns.
Justifying the vote would be horrible :D sorry to say but considering the number of shot you see per day it's insane ^^ And think of the moderators having to read it :D
This isn't really an issue any more Cotp. The main offenders got the message and changed accordingly. General day-to-day voting is not a problem, but we still keep an eye on it.
Glad to hear it them00ch... with your avatar it seems obvious that you keep an eye on it ;)
Do you personnaly think that the ratings are fare ? I mean I can speek for myself, I try to play the game and vote of what I really think of the shot (even though I know it's subjective) and not taking into account if I solve the snap (voted 3 an obvious snap that I founded really horrible)...
As for our own uploads would like to see someone who rate it other than 10 ! ;) I upload a movie and rate it 4 ah ah :P
Just thought about it today, something intersting would be (only in the submission section) to not show the ratings until you have voted, therefore to not be influenced by other voters on our vote.
What do you think about this idea ? As it ever been discussed ?
it's getting very hard to get a picture in the FF. the best way to see a shot going through? take it from 2001: a space odissey or any other kubrick or disney movie. makes me sad.
I dont think this is true, did you look at the FF latelly? I think you will see many shots from movies which are solved less than 10 times. There are all kind of movies: b&w, old, new, famous, not famous. And more than 80 goes each day. If there were only disney and movies like 2001 to go through I would be the first one to complain :) I dont think it is harder than before, I have even seen some famous movie been rated lower than they would have been in the past and some dont make it. And in contrary, I see quite often some less known movies making it on votes which was very rare a few weeks ago :)
i have to agree with Chrisy. I think the balance between blockbusters/rare movies is quite good. I think the number of users uploading stills has increased (i for one see a lot of new names), so the chance of your own shot might have gone down. However, taking a look at FF makes me happy, if i compare it to just after the release of WTM 2.0
both of you are right, balance in FF is probably better than ever, but If I want my hoverboard memorabilia with my next new submission shot, I'll take a 2001 or clockwork orange one. shure to make it with.
I think the unfair voting is still going on. If certain people can't solve a movie they just vote 1 or 2. I think that's really unfair. Ok, I got it off my chest.
They don't have to be "familiar" with it... It's just common sense, and it says when you vote "Rate the shot, not the movie". Should be enough, in my opinion.
I'd like to give my contribution to this discussion: What do you think about allowing votes ONLY on SOLVED stills? I kwon this can turn the selection of new submitted frames more difficult, so maybe it's possible to create a different algorithm that considers also the number of solution raised from frames as a parameter. And for exeptional ones, there are MODS!
We had this discussion a long time ago, after wtm 2.0 started. The idea got turned down, but since then every vote from someone who solved the shot counts three times as much as a a vote from somebody who didn't solve it.
I add my voice to this discussion as well. When I refresh the page with NS I'm going to the last one with red line - i find there: great, interesting, good quality, colorful shot, although I don't have any idea of the movie.Then I see the rate approx. 3/10 and 6 votes. It's ridiculous. I'm really dissapointed and I'm not taking into consideration my shots in this situation, I'm talking in general. Please find the solution, catch these users, give the ban for voting. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to stop voting unsolved ones. At least maybe u could prevent them from voting 1 for unsolved shots, if they didn't understand the meanining of expression - "awesomeness of the shot". Or maybe you could add some kinda short advertisement after registration in different languages explaining the meaning of voting. Mods don't need to know every language, but don't worry there are some people in every country who are tired of this situation, and would help for sure.
yeah, things got better for a while but it seems we had a lot of new users lately who rate very low. We are looking up for the bad guys and I warned a few people already but it will always be like this with new members... I also think there should be some sort of avertisement or some explanation on good voting behaviour somewhere and most important, I think new members should not be allowed right away to vote, they should be on a certain rank and understand already a bit the site. Problem is: you get a certain rank by voting so this wont work
You can also earn wtm bucks by writing reviews and adding titles. I think the new members shouldn't be allowed to vote untill they reach a certain number of visits on the site or maybe a number of days.
Dont think it matters if you delay people's ability to vote. After the delay is up, what is to stop people voting badly anyway? Don't think it will change anything.
At the end of the day, voting is subjective, and impossible to "police". People will vote what they want. Generally speaking, the cream still rises to the top, and for everything else, well, thats what the moderators are for :)
All we can do is try to catch the people who use multi-accounts and collaborators etc. and you have to trust us that we do catch people who abuse the voting system in this way.
well I agree that voting is subjective but I still think giving 1 to everything you dont know and 10 to the rest is cheating and I have seen more people doing this lately. But yes indeed we are there for this and we can ban these people from voting. But at least there should be a clear explanation and some type of agreements people sign for before they start voting. Some type of "good voting behaviour" chart people all agree with.
I have noticed that very new shots in the new submission section (less than 2 or 3 hours) have usually fair ratings, and quite high, even for unsolved shots. Then, after 24h, the average rating is much lower, as if there has been a crowd of "1 voters" that lower everything but the obvious blockbusters.
It's not always correct efji, I have this shot in NS right now http://whatthemovie.com/shot/54266 and it has a incredible score though it's unsolved+b/w... It's crazy :-O!
I'm seriously thinking to quit of WTM just because of that behavior.
I try to take the best shots and I vote the pics not the movie. I vote in every single pic and I give a lot of 10(10/10) even when I have no idea of the title is just because the pic is awesome even I put some of these pics in my favorites (ex.: #55171, #54962, #48395) but the same is not true by some other users.
This is not a compettion, at least not for me, but I don't accept unfair vote or judgement... This game is supposed to be funny and I don't enjoying when I see a pic (not my own) with a low vote like these ones #36374, #25686. These are great shots but with a low rating just because a group of members just don't know the title.
Well I truely hope that you guys find a way to refine the vote's system. I don't wanna see a very good idea, like the WTM, losing the charm.
put yourself in our position, what would you do? put a moderator behind each players back who slaps their fingers if they vote unfair?
Every community on the web has its trolls, people who geek around and throw spanners in the works. WTM is no exception.
The trick is to convince as many people as possible to vote, simply to outweigh the trolls and achieve an equilibrium.
And to close my little statement: It's the own choice of each player how to rate the awesomeness of a Snapshot. There is no rule like "Don't vote 1 on a good shot" because after all, it's just personal taste.
@freddelgado, don't forget the majority of the shots going through is pushed by a moderator (more than 2/3), so the rating of your shot doesn't matter that much as long as it is a good shot...
I think another factor is that many people vote where the last white star is. if the voting turned private and you can't see how high or low a movie is rated, the bias will decrease. i think it's mostly fair for the voting in the new submissions to be visible only to the uploader (since only real humans upload snapshots and not computers). and if it makes it to the FF, then the rating should go public. i just don't see why the new submissions rating is public and not private. if my suggestion is applied, many things could change.
I was thinking about the people giving constantly low ratings. Would it be possible to display the average/median rating someone gives to shots ? Maybe with different tweakings, like percentage of ratings under 3, the average without ratings on their shots etc...
I think it would be easier to find out people that often gives bad ratings for no reason... then actions could be taken against them. Or simply, if it's displayed on profile, they would appear as bad raters, and people would remember it when voting on THEIR shots.
As I stated before (not that anybody gave a dam), conceal the average rate. People rating the new subs are after bucks and if they don't care much about a particular shot they just go with the average rating. If it's concealed they will give a more honest rating and I am convinced that this will make things a lot more interesting on here. The average vote should still be visible AFTER giving your own though! :)
A bit of common sense, which probably won't be incorporated. Feel free to impress me!
VinceNet, I think moderators can already see who gave what rating, and if they see any irregular behaviour, they take actions, but "Or simply, if it's displayed on profile, they would appear as bad raters, and people would remember it when voting on THEIR shots." is a very bad idea, we don't want vigilante behaviour here, I think.