Sorry to bring up again such a topic but after having some shots rejected I thought maybe I am really doing something wrong... But is the voting system really fare ? By that I mean, do members only vote in all objectivity about a shot or do the SOLVING OF A SHOT influences them
I thought of doing a little analysis. I took all the shots in the Submissions sections from the past 24 hours. And looked at the number of solves for all rate under 6:
So what do you think ? Coincidence ? What is the point of the site ? Get quality shots or get high solved shots ? I hope you understand that I do not whish to critic the voting system but to try and make a point so we can all think if this is the best way to get quality shots in FF ?
I don't say I have a solution to this (I wish I had so I would suggest an idea), but maybe someone will have one and will suggest something...
Yes, it is. People vote for shots they like, it's called democracy. If your taste is different from most people, it's not called unfair, it's called bad luck. We have excellent moderators who push through lots of varied shots, and that should be enough.
In a democracy your liking is not the one of the majority and in wtm the liking of the majority tends to not like your shots apparently... hence you wouldn't post :D
Asmodai I'm sorry I didn't talk about the moderators that do an excellent job of course, I was just trying here to see if there was indeed a relation between rate vs number of solves. Castaka when you say "your liking is not the one of the majority", I see a problem because your talking about movie taste. I would say two things. First it is clearly said that we should rate the snapshot not the movie. I guess I would like it to say "Do note rate high just because you solved the snapshot or the opposite" Second, I admit to try and upload some movies that are not that common, I even get often some that aren't in the database. But I still think it's better to have a variaty of movies in WTM, and that's just my point of view of course. If it was just me, I would give an awesome upload for free to each first shot of each movie. So that we could get at least a snap for a movie... ;) And finally M00ch I don't understand why you say I should analyze the FF section since in there aren't any rejected snapshots of course and there is no way to know the shots that have been pushed are awesomly uploaded so it would make it difficult to make an analysis...
Anyway I don't want to incommodate you guys, I love your site, otherwise I wouldn't be there every day, and the title of my topic was a bit provocative, just to get your reactions... in fact I just wanted to debate over the rating system as usual and not because my shots get rejected, there are many shots of my new friends on WTM that get rejected too which I find kind of unfair... so as we say in french I just wanted to "faire avancer le schmilblick" :)
I think Castaka is also talking about your taste in which shots are interesting. When I see shots that you post and you consider interesting or fun, I often see boring shots of people talking, and therefore I rate low, because I do not like them. Wether I know the film or not, it doesn't matter, even if it is an important scene, because I vote for the SHOT, not the meaning of the shot.
Asmodai, this topic has been discussed many time, and never satisfactory answered. I *does* matter whether you know the film or not in many cases. Of course this one is objectively awsome: http://whatthemovie.com/shot/43791 for anyone, but this one http://whatthemovie.com/shot/42793 (that I didn't solve) is probably awesome too, according to the shouts and the rating. But as I didn't recognize the movie, I find it simply boring. That's why I seldom give a rating to shots that I don't solve, except Johnny Depp headshots :)
True, some shots only work out when you've seen the movie. http://whatthemovie.com/shot/3210 is a great example for this, in the rating system it would probably make it because it's such a well-known movie, but if it was seen by only few people it would get terrible ratings, which is very understandable if you haven't seen it.
The reason I mentioned to check the FF section, is it will show you that even shots with low solve rates, and comparitively low scores make it through. My point is to not get too wrapped up with the score and the solve rates, its not the only thing that matters. It helps, but is not the final say on if an image makes it or not.
hmm oke.. i didn't go through all of the shot linked above.. but i think it it obvious the higher rated shots are much much better then the lower rated ones... you saw this yourself i presume? number of solves prob will have an influence on the rating but i don't think you're on the right track here ;)
and check this one out: UNSOLVED, pretty oke rating ;) (7.58)
I just wanted to point out that there is a relation between the rates and the number of solves. Not every time of course (like in your link above yes bazzy, I noticed that architectural shots from above have good rating ^^) Of course in my first set of links the higher rated shots are better than the low rated... In only took the 8 best rated and 8 lowest rated. But too me, just looking at the number of solves for these one, you see that there is some corelation.
Intersting discussion above about the importance to have seen the film or not to understand the meaning of the shot... I wonder if this could be taken in consideration...
Anyway them00ch, I understand what you say now. And as usual, this will pass and I won't get too "wrapped up" (don't know what that means lol, but I won't). I just was hoping for ideas to make this system better. But I guess if I am the only one to think there is a problem than I promiss I won't say no more on the matter.
Sorry folks to start again the debate but I wonder... One of my shot from a famous movie: http://whatthemovie.com/shot/42779 got a 7.96 (found by more than 1000 members) and I just started http://whatthemovie.com/shot/44652 that it's already got a 5.83 ... (not so famous movie) I know I should not focus on the ratings but I can't help, it drives me nuts lol... Should I really put only famous movies into submissions and use my awesome uploads for the rest ?? I know some shots get the help of moderators but it feels frustrating to see some shots rejected just because the film aren't famous enough... and don't tell me it is because of the shots cause I won't believe you :P
well I can only talk for myself (although I'm pretty sure m00ch and Deviant think the same way when they choose shots to push through) but I really dont care if a shot has been solved a lot a not, even unsolved. In contrary, I can even say that in general I concentrate on these less solved shots if they are decent quality... + the 3 of us have different taste which wider even more the range of shots chosen. Again, I'm sorry not everything can go through. But I understand your frustration, I like your last shot for instance, it's original, big plus in my view, I dont understand the low rating either but there is not much that can be done but accepting it, it really doesn't mean it wont make it. And it is also difficult to say with only 14 people who voted, there is still room for improvement :) 2 or 3 people solving your shot and giving it a good rate for instance and you would get a big difference since each vote counts for 3 ;)
Chrisy, thanks for taking the time and explain you moderation. Nice to learn that you all have different taste and don't concentrate on the solvings... But then again I think to myself, why do we rate the snapshots if we're just gonna rate high the one we solved ? Do you understand my point ? Another thing, what do you mean by "each vote will count for 3", not sure to understand... thought it was a joke :\ Naut, probably would have rated 6 either anyway ;) lol
Votes by solvers count three times, votes by people who didn't solve the shot only once. So when your shot has gotten two ratings, a nine and an eight, and the one who gave you a nine solved the shot, the average rating will be (9+9+9+8)/4 = 8.75
And it's true shots with many solves get higher ratings most of the time, but it pleases me there are also bad shots from giant blockbusters that don't get through nowadays, just as some very hard shots that do.
Thanks for that explanation. So an easy snap from a very popular movie has more chance to go through I guess ? Except if the snap is really bad...
You know what I would do ? I would try and find a formula that involves the solvings but in another way. Like a film with a few solving should get boosted... but it just my opinion :)
Now you just want to make hard shots enter more, that is not the intention of this 3:1 rule, as I understand it. The intention is for shots who are better/more awesome if you have seen the film (important events, great performances etc) to get the proper respect they deserve.