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- CommentAuthortoffetomas
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
Why not consider a PPZ sidequest as a demonstration?? ;)
WE WANT FUN! -
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
@Chrisy
Beginning of transmission.
WE DISCOVERED A WTM TRIBE.
Stop.
They have strange customs.
Stop.
Each member has to feed the tribe.
Stop.
The tribe selects the food.
Stop.
A robot choose the best dish every hour.
Stop.
And the tribe throws out the food the robot didn't choose!
Stop.
Some members of the tribe really want to share their own food.
Stop.
We don't know what's going to happen.
End of transmission. -
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- CommentAuthortoffetomas
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010 edited
@palahniuk
In the beginnig you were fun.
Stop.
I used to like you.
Stop.
Now you're just being stupid.
Stop.
Please stop.
Stop. -
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
Office911, Chrisy, Toffetomas!
Nobody whines.
Nobody complains.
It's an interesting discussion. -
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- CommentAuthortheoffice911
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
Sounds like whining to me!
You're playing a game where you have to upload a shot and 50 people upload a shot too. People vote for the shots they think is the best. The winners go to the FF, the losers are rejected. You lost several times in a row so you're sad and wanna change the rule of the game so you can win. I'm sorry but that sounds more childish than interesting to me. -
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
Office911.
Well. I don't know.
I say people tossed pretty good ideas during the last week.
Don't you think?
Okay: I make a fuss.
So what ? I've read a lot of very interesting reactions.
Including yours!
Shaking a tree gets fruits for everyone. -
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All these ideas were already discussed in other topics, all were commented already in a negative or positive way, I didn't read anything new here, you are not the first one making a fuzz about it, so why making it so big suddenly? you were not complaining when your shots were doing good, and that was not so long ago...
I think at this stage, there are a lot more other urgent issues that Naut needs to consider, I dont know if you have read well but Tliff is not coming back, and WTM is in need of a new programmer, without this nothing can be done. And if/when that new programmer is found, he/she will have enough in hands with all the bugs on the site and things that need attention, dont you think? a rethink of the all the voting system or what ever is really out of context at the moment, really, especially because this is the best system we've had so far, and changing it means taking into consideration all the improvement made and if it is trully worth it. Looking at the past year and a half, we have had a lot worse issues related to voting, remember when the best rating was like 6.5 or 7 max, when tones of people were voting strategically, and giving 1 all the time (some of you think this is still happening, well it isn't, trust me!), when a b&w movie or a rare movie making it to WTM was a miracle, when bad quality shots were all over the FF. This has all improved but as a theoffice911 say this is part of the game, yes uploading is part of it too, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose, too bad, try again ;) -
If I was tliff I'll consider watching http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285016/ before quitting...
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- CommentAuthortheoffice911
- CommentTimeNov 18th 2010
Hahaha efji ^^ -
What about this:
What if we stop the voting 1-10 and just vote "yes" or "no". We don't work with rating anymore but percentage! It works on youtube ;-)
Then we unable players to vote on shots that are uploaded in the same hour as your own uploaded shot. This to stop people voting "no" (or in the old days 1, 2 or 3) to just push their shots through to the FF.
We can also hide the name of the uploader, the percentage and the number of solves to make it mysterious (ooeeeh). -
@energ
I vote against the last proposition. If the number of solves is hidden I'll miss all the POC, LOTR, HP that I locate by their high number of solvers, and will then only solve obscure black and white silent swedish movies :( -
Hi !
I think the actual system is not so bad. It's a true democratic one, the majority dictates his law. Most of people watch some movies, most of people by the same DVD and most of people will post shots of the same movies. People are on WTM for playing, they want to get bucks, they solve mostly the same shots, they want to score one point, the give a good rating to the shot they solve. That's all. (why people watch all the same movies is another problem).The only non democratic process in WTM is the role of the mods. They allow the minority to exist, butnonetheless, the fact remains that minority must remain minority. And everybody will agree that this non-democratic process is wonderfull no ? ;) Of course you are frustrated when you want to share your experiences with nice shots and get thrown away... But that's the same in the real world when you try to discuss about the last obscure and wonderfull forgotten gem movie you discovered, people listen carefully to you and one minute beacause they are your friend and are very polite and then discuss with enthusiasm of the last Harry Potter...
So, even if sometime you feel frustrated, I don't think there is to change the voting system now. Just trust the mods and the system, be yourself and keep on playing !
Giving AUs to great contibutors is not a bad idea, but what is a great contributor must be well defined, and that's not so simple.
So, back to WTM, uploading shots of obscure b&w movies that nobody have watched...
PS. Agree with @efji, don't hide the number of solvers, it's my only way to recognize blockbusters... -
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 19th 2010
@Chrisy
Why am I making this big.
See wide. Enough with details.
1. WE LOVE WTM
We are daily users.
It's part of our life.
2. WE HAVE A PROBLEM
It is call frustration.
On a daily basis.
I don't think it's stupid to talk about it.
WE HAVE A BIGGER PROBLEM.
Tliff is out.
What if Naut decides one day to drop the site ?
Your beloved memorabilias and snaps collection will disappear from your screen !
The only thing, you Chrisy, will have to moderate is Toffetomas!
I say let's help Naut.
We're a community.
How?
Does he need a programmer?
How much does it cost?
Say he needs 500 euros per month.
250 of us toss 2 EUROS in the basket each month.
You wanna make things move?
Let's make the move! -
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From experience and being in the webdesign field myself.. programmers cost roughly about 75 to 100 euros per hour easily. More if they're really good ones. ;)
Sites like WTM are created with the enthousiasm and love from it's creators and thrive by the efforts of their community. Which is why voting and uploading is rewarded with shiny memorabilia's. The problem is becoming scalability.. more people enjoy WTM, more people upload snapshots. But you don't want to flood the game with 4x the number of accepted shots into the FF. -
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 19th 2010
Of course a programmer costs more than 500 per month !
The question is :
HOW CAN WE HELP ?
If Naut says :
- I have X euros from supporters.
- I have X euros from advertising.
- I need X euros cash.
Then --- me, Naut --- I can deal with an enthousiastic young programmer.
There's no problems, only solutions. -
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Yes (good) programmers cost (big) money on the marketplace.
But linux and free software exist anyway !
They have been programmed for free by skilled and enthousiast programmers. And it works. Pretty well.
There are 39,076 registered users on WTM. Nobody is able to share a little bit of his talents ? -
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 19th 2010
Read the personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
Let's think community.
40,000 users.
500 can help Naut and WTM.
With skills or money.
Let's do it! -
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I'm kinda disappointed that one of my snapshot hasn't been accepted http://whatthemovie.com/shot/122765
Ok it wasn't awesome or colorful, ok it wasn't the SotD, but it got a honest rating and in my opinion it was a good depiction of this well-known character (and regarding the snapshots existing yet for this movie).
However, I wanted to clarify that its rating suddenly lost 20 hundredth (from 7,98 to 7,78) just at the time it passed in the 24h left, how strange...
Someone obviously dropped his previous rating, for his own advantage I guess. Shameful :(
So next time maybe. -
I verified your shot Redman, and NOONE dropped his/her votes ;)
You got all kind of votes since the 24h, some really high some lower but nothing strange. Just someone solving your shot and giving you a 7 would do this -
Ok thanks for this information Chrisy ;)
Nevertheless i'm sure it lost 20 hundredth around 19h yesterday, I know it because I was checking the chance for my shot to be accepted.
So we can't explain it, well it's not important at all. I'm just disappointed.
"Just someone solving your shot and giving you a 7 would do this" Here I don't understand, what do you mean ? -
Someone rating your shot and solving it counts for 3 votes ;) This rule was put in place to give an advantage to less famous movies
I looked at the votes, we can see them, we can also see when people change their votes, there was nothing strange on yours, noone went back after a while to change his/her votes. They were all new votes. I understand you feel desapointed and that when the votes go down it is frustrating, it can look suspicious but I have proof :) -
Damn, was I hallucinating (I don't smoke weed though) or have i been the victime of a conspiracy ? :o)
It will remain a mystery for me...
Anyway, thanks for according me your time and these additional informations ;) -
Wait what? There's some logic I don't quite understand.. rating and solving counts for 3 votes to give lesser known movies a better chance?
Yes.. when tripling votes that also solved the movie (and thus probably rated it a bit higher than average) will lessen the impact of a single low vote made in spite to rule out competition. But it also means that to well known movies, it means even less of an impact.
Let's say we have 2 shots.. one from harry potter and one from a lesser known movie. They are both ultra awesome and 100 people all rate it a 10. Only the Harry Potter shot is solved by all 100 voters.. the lesser known movie only by 10 voters. Then someone comes along voting all shots but his own a 1.
What happens is that the HP shot goes to 9.97. And the lesser known movie goes to 9.92. When all votes counted as 1 vote regardless of solving both shots would be an avarage of 9.91. Equal. But with the solved counts as three rule, it results in a higher score for the better known movie, simply because more people were able to solve that one. The rule gives an advantage to both movies, only somewhat more for the better known ones.
As I said, it's logic I don't quite understand. I can understand the line of thinking, because yes, the lesser known movie is hurt less by the one low vote now. But it ends up having a lower average than the well known movie with the rule. While that without the rule in this completely silly situation they would have had the same average. -
There is NOBODY voting all shots but his own a 1. These people don't exist, we check and on the rare occasions that we see somebody doing it we act accordingly.
The logic goes:
shot from unknown movie gets lower votes, because people can't solve it. The people that DO solve it, and you can assume they have seen it and respect the awesomeness of the shot or at least give a fair vote, get "more" votes in. -
Hypothetical situation, just something to hang some maths upon. And as I said.. I understand the line of thinking.. getting more higher votes in for lesser known movies. But it also helps the famous movies. Only even more so, because the already higher number of high votes get tripled as well.
I don't know how long the rule has been in effect and if there are some statistics from before and after the rule. It would be interesting to see that.. to see wether or not the rule actually helps close the gap or if it only enlarges it. -
The point was that the "famous movies" were going to get in anyway, so it makes no difference for their score to be solidified, however lesser known movies get a much needed boost. It used to be that an average or even poor shot from a well-known movie was going through ahead of a great image from a low-solve shot, this change nullified that. Dont know about stats, but on experience this single change to voting weight balanced everything out nicely, and we started to see a much more eclectic range of films and shots make FF.
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 20th 2010
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CommentAuthorPalahniuk007
- CommentTimeNov 20th 2010 edited
Here's the sacrifice capture:
http://www.screencast.com/users/Palahniuk/folders/Jing/media/83550b51-95f5-4e9f-afd9-bec2e7e52c74
If you want to understand how it happened, there's a lot of things to read, starting from here:
http://forum.whatthemovie.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=774&page=2 -
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I really dont get you...
I thought you were all about looking for new ideas, noone said that there weren't any changes to make but that right now there were bigger issues, you could have understood that, right?
Your shots not making it for 2 weeks and you leave? What has changed in 2 weeks (appart from your shots not making it?)?
Anyway, that's totally your choice and your "show" Palahniuk, you are trying to make a statement that I'm not sure will be perceived the way you want it....
I'm not gona make a big fuz out of this. Your games were fun and untertaining, thanks for that, that will be a loss. For the rest, again it is your choice. Bye! -
- CommentAuthorWinterwolf
- CommentTimeDec 6th 2010 edited
i am the only one who think there are some assholes pull down your shots? nearly each day shots got after another vote a downrate of 0,3 to 0,4. http://whatthemovie.com/shot/126281 After 57/58 votes got a rating of 7,88 and 2 votes later 7,58. Some minutes later the errorgator push a shot with 7,78. Thats very sad :( And it happens not the first time to me
Edit: lol 61votes 7,57 and now still 61 votes and 7,74... whats wrong here :( -
- CommentAuthorSunsetWalker
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2010
Well, we're kind of used with this sudden loss of points when our snaps get near of passing, but something I really don't get is why, oh why, do some creatures still push down the rating AFTER the snap has gone to FF. I mean, hell, you're not gonna earn bucks, you're not gonna change the overall situation, you're just making some uploader less happy. FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN RETURN! That's just out of reach to my limited human mind to comprehend that. You don't like the snap, well, you had your chance in NS. Bah.
As example: http://whatthemovie.com/shot/123563 this fellow here had 8.02 exact two votes ago. What makes two people vote it down when it's not a threat to SotD or current NS? Mystery... -
I recognised this rapid downvote a lot. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the shots were downvoted intentionally to stop them from going to ff. The votes may be an honest opinion of someone and it is just bad luck that they came right in time to stop your shot.
I think the problem is basically that people who don't like a shot have more power than people who like it. You don't reach a good rating because many people like your shot but because only few people hate it. Lets think of a shot with a solid rating of 8.0 after 30 votes. It seems to go straight to ff by rating. If two more people like it and vote it 10 it will slightly raise to 8.125 (ignoring the trible-counted solvers votes). But if two people honestly don't like it and rate it 1 (and they may not even feel like doing something bad since the range is from 1 to 10) the rating will fall to 7,5625 and the shot needs many good ratings to recover. Rating SunsetWalkers shot a 10 just increased the rating by enormous 0.03 points ;) Even an average voting of 4, 5, 6 or 7 can damage the rating of a shot.
Why is that? Because the rating at which a shot is accepted is pretty high. If I like a shot I should rate it 6 till 10, but instead I have to rate it 8, 9 or 10. Otherwise I would harm a shot I like. Obviously many voters think so and some may only vote up the shots they like and not vote down the ones they don't like because they know how it feels when their shot's rating drops. So there is barely a shot below 6 in NS nowadays (despite the average vote being 5.5). If everyone used the whole range of 1 to 10 the rating of shots would differ much more, shots would be accepted at a lower voting and single downvotes would have less effect. But I see no chance to change the voting behaviour of all players (I would not even want to change my own voting behaviour and become one of the "assholes" Winterwolf is talking about).
The solution? As soon as a tliff-replacement is found and he/she fixed the bugs there should be a change in the voting system to "yes"/"no" (and maybe "maybe") in my opinion. A single "no"-vote won't change the overall rating of a good shot that much (no matter if it was an honest vote or an attempt to push the own shots). And vice versa one "yes" won't do much difference on a shot considered bad by many players.
But until then the mod-magic will do the trick. It happened a lot that I went trough NS thinking "what a nice shot, shame about the rating" and most of these shots were pushed to ff later that day. Low ratings don't stop good shots from going to ff - it just feels a lot better if you see that many people like your uploads instead of getting a low rating because some don't like it :) -
- CommentAuthorTommy_Leazaq
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2010
I completely agree with fnick.
Disclaimer : "I haven't completely understood the voting if a SS is solved or fav-ed. Im just talking abt general voting"
IMO, all the problem occurs bcoz the cut-off is 7.8 (thats what I think it is. Correct me if Im wrong).So if a person vote a 7 to a SS which is a good rating, it still produces adverse effect on the SS. In other words, if 1 person votes a "1" then it takes atleast 8 ppl to vote "9" to get that SS to stay in the contention. -
- CommentAuthorWinterwolf
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2010 edited
@fnick
the problem is not 1 or some people vote low. Thats ok if someone not like the shot and give low points.
The problem is there are people here who downrate shots tactically. 3 Weeks ago i recognized first time a shot after about 50 votes goes down from 7,97 to 7,72 without a new vote. There was someone changed a 9-10 to a 1-2 do get this high difference
I think the 2 voter must not given a 1 at all, maybe they give a average 6-10 and the downrate makes another voter already voted long time before. I cant say it sure, because i am not watching all few minutes my shots. I watched it about 40 minutes before and in this time 2 more people voted. But i think not this 2 people downrated it.
this shot http://whatthemovie.com/shot/126040 got a rating about 8,22 after 47-48 votes, after 51 votes it got higher as 8,5. This is strange, if i am not to bad in maths its only possible if all 47 voters before dont solve the shot and 3-4 new voter solved it all and each given a 10. But there was about the same number of solver and voter, so i think the half or more of the voter have solved the shot. I think this increasing is only possible if someone changed his vorting from very low to high.
Same shot, some time before, about around 30 voters the shot decreased in NS from 8,3x to 8,08 without a new vote. Somebody changed his voting in NS and than 1 day later after SotD given away he/she rechanged his/her voting? Dont know, but its strange. Any got another idea? Maybe there is something in the calculation of WTM, which should balance well known movies and unknown movies (i read something the creators would do something that unknowner movies should get a better chance of accept). Maybe this is the cause of that huge difference without new votes...
Btw this is a frustation cry out zone if you look at the first posts of that discussion. I just wanted cry out my frust of this evening ;) -
"Btw this is a frustation cry out zone"
Damn, i totally missed that fact. Fuck these fucking downvote-fuckers! -
- CommentAuthorTommy_Leazaq
- CommentTimeJan 4th 2011
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/131746
So close yet so far...!
7.53 with 5 favs.. But rejected.. Its a unfair world..!! :'( -
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/132143
Me too
7.59 with 6 favs.. but also rejected.
But we'll keep on trying -
@nevs
Did you expect a mod would push yet another £%µ$£§ù LOTR shot ?
Come on ! -
I'm a bis sad that http://whatthemovie.com/shot/133430 didn't make it. Okay the rating really sucks, but at least 4 people love the shot.
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WTF...for 2 days in NS rating is from 8.52(~32 votes) to 8.31(~50 votes) and when should be accepted and "maybe" fight for SotD its mysteriously below 8.00 i just few hours..nice.. -.-
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Look who's talking. You do the same thing to others players so don't complain... (last time you came to my profil you lowered my last FF shots).
And don't lie, i'm a wtm supporter, i can see who is coming on my profil. -
first why woud I lie..lol..I was probably on everyones profil page by now..yeah..
secod I was on your profile page and because of that Im the one who lowered your last FF shot?
wow..good thinking..like someone needs to be on your profile page to low FF shot rating..
and my FF shots rating is going up and down every day..so I need to accuse someone who was on my profile page..
and third "You do the same thing to others players" go a little easier with stupid accusations.. -
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CommentAuthorolympiquetango
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2011
@nutria: it didn´t make it? oh damn. i was one of those who loved that shot. too bad. try it again! -
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@torqu3 oh come on, do i have to explain ? You were the only one to visit my profil from 5 days like one month ago, my FF shots didn't have a new vote since at least 3 days, you appear on my profile and two minutes after they have a new vote which decreases tremendously the note at the same time. Coincidence ? I don't think so, since i wrote here about tags, you don't have me in your heart, that's ok but please, enough, after my tags were all deleted, now that, enough is enough, even if that's make me laugh seriously. Just, don't have the nerve to complain here when you do the same...
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well last year for few weeks I wasn't active..and when I came back i went through all (~30 days) FF shots guess them and rate them..so maybe someone do the same thing here..and rating wasn't changed only on your shots..and have nothig to do with who was on anyones profile..
hmmmm..I was on sati's profile page and Keyser_Soze's and they couldn't upload new shots..maybe I do that..you're right I'm not human..I'm virus or bug or bot on this site..
why whoud I lower your rating I'm not getting anything from it and shot are already in FF..but if you're convinced I have some hidden agenda against you, ok..
but you're wrong.. -
Why Can't We All Just Get Along PEOPLE!
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Keep Cool boys... I think the mods can know how you're voting but other players can't ?? (or I missed something ??) I can't know who's voting on my shots and the note they give... And I don't care indeed... Just a game he ? ;)
I post many many shots, some go through, some are rejected and I'm sad... but that's not important, just post another one (or repost later...) !!
Cool, cool, cool... -
Not that it needed the high ratings, since it is an AU, but COME ON.
This is funny, right?
http://whatthemovie.com/shot/134233
Yes?
No?
I thought it was funny, every time I see that ugly face it makes me laugh. -
- CommentAuthortheoffice911
- CommentTimeJan 15th 2011
Life is tough for redheads... -