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    • CommentAuthorJackFost
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2011 edited
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    Hello

    I don't really know what happened to IMDB recently but it looks like many DVD pages are missing. Or maybe the rule stating that we can't upload snapshots from DVDs not released according to IMDB should be revised.
    I have three examples of wonderful snapshots which, according to this rule, are not supposed to exist in the archive : #81678, #62003, #125435, and the list could go on . . .
    This rule was supposed "to avoid confusion with release dates all around the world" but I don't really see how. Actually, the confusion is already enormous with the title changes, the fact that some movies are not even distributed in many countries, but we can deal with it.
    The worst is that now, the DVD database of IMDB relies on Amazon.com, which is incomplete because it only sells american released DVDs and only a few import movies (source : http://www.imdb.com/updates/guide/dvd).

    It's just a proposal but please, revise this rule.

    Best regards,

    JackFost
    • CommentAuthorMisterZob
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2011 edited
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    Yeah, I've noticed that IMDb has gotten lazy on DVD information and now relies only on Amazon.com (and not in "real time", since some data is missing too).
    I agree: this rules needs to be updated. But it needs to be discussed within Staff first.
    Feel free to suggest any replacement database for reference. Be aware we mods will NOT check retailers from all around the world to check if a shot is legit or not.

    By the way, the rule is about *recent* movies. Shot #62003 is from a 2006 movie. We are not going to reject a shot from this movie just because IMDb is not comprehensive on DVD releases.
    And the rule means: *if* there's an IMDb DVD release date, it becomes WTM reference. When shot #125435 (like all the previous ones from this movie) was uploaded, there was no IMDb DVD release date, but the movie was officially out (at least) in the UK. So it was perfectly legit by WTM rules. Which means uploading shots from this movie is still OK, even though IMDb has now a release date.

    Right now, and as long as the rule is not updated, it's quite simple: if you want to upload a shot from a recent movie that has no shots on WTM yet (if it already has, it's probably OK to upload), just check the IMDb DVD page (the url being like www.imdb.com/title/tt0000000/dvd)
    - If there's a DVD release date on this page, you cannot post before that date
    - If there's not, provide a link proving the DVD is officially out in a spoilered shout below the shot
    • CommentAuthorJackFost
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2011 edited
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    Thanks for your answer, I can clearly see the problem now.

    Since the database is not updated properly, is there a point in making a difference between "there is no release date" and "there is one but it's for later" ? We could provide a proof for every DVD that is not released according to IMDB, regardless of whether there is a release date scheduled for later or not. There would then be more proofs to check but since any member who is at least clapper loader can vote for deletion in case of violation of the rules, you will not be alone :)
    • CommentAuthorMisterZob
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2011
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    When we implemented this rule, there were 2 advantages:
    - ONE reference site, which means only ONE link to check (a good rule is a simple rule)
    - a worldwide reference site, which made it rather fair for all WTM users

    And this rule actually works. People got used to it.
    Which means we will only change it to something at least as simple. And I don't think you "always-provide-a-link" suggestion is going that way.

    Now, it's becoming obvious that IMDb is no DVD database... and has no intention to become one in a nearby future. That's why, like you, I think we need to update this rule.
    But it's not gonna happen in the blink of an eye.

    IMHO, one good way to handle it would be implement a new feature.
    WTM itself should prevent users from uploading unreleased movies. This could work through a "lock" feature, which would unlock on a specific date, set by Staff. But the question on how this date would be chosen still stands. Which reference will we use? Not Amazon.com I hope... Because it would be easier to stick to the current rule then. ;)
    Anyway, we're still looking for a new developer... So nothing like this is gonna happen any time soon.
    • CommentAuthorWinterwolf
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2011
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    If you look for a new standard, it would be nice you look for a standard, that will fix the injustice for people living in a country, in which movies will be released very late.

    Its very frustrating if you have to wait several months more as english/french speaken regions and there always about 10-25 shots already at WTM, if you are able to buy that movie in your own country... Only 1 of 10 movies are released in germany about the same time as in UK or France, in Brasil it should be the same. The best shots are always taken! Especially because of good movies there a tons of AUs used by some people

    I know its impossible to check all release dates of the countries in the world. Especially not all movies got a release in all countries. And there are some movies got a release in one or in only some countries.

    So here my idea. If someone create a new movie on WTM, you have to input some datas already now. One of that is the year of release. Why you not change this to a datum format XX.XX.XXXX (day/month/year) for the date of first cinema release and than the first upload is possible 1 Year after first cinema release. The cinema release you can always find on IMDB (i never see a movie which the cinema release date is not to see there). And if you see the release date insteed of only the year at WTM, its not necessary to watch many times at IMDB until you see the DVD release there. Would make all easier...

    And why 1 Year? I know there are movies released on DVD in about 4-5 months after first cinema release data, but some like "The Road" got a Release date on german amazon on 18th march 2011, and first cinema release was 29th september 2009. Dont know the DVD release in brasil, but cinema release was in April 2010, in germany in June 2010. Sunsetwalker told me often release dates in brasil and they are most a time around 1-2 month of the date in germany, also much later as in french or UK. So i think the 1-Year-to-wait-after-first-chinema-release will be a fair solution.
    • CommentAuthorMisterZob
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2011
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    One year? I think that would make most uploaders pretty frustrated. And it would lead to more AU flooding when the date finally comes. Just like for theatrical releases, it will always feel unfair in some way. But waiting so long would actually bring more much frustration, IMO.
    Plus getting the 1st theather release date would be too much trouble for must users, I'm afraid. Which means it would probably lead to fake dates. And we're not gonna check them all.
    • CommentAuthorWinterwolf
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2011
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    you are from france, you dont know the situation that each week a shot were uploaded which you maybe wanted to upload too, and after 3-4 month you can buy the movie at amazon and then there are all nice shots taken... i know you dont know this situation as frenchman, but i can tell you, thats really really more sucks than all have to wait! Yes truely the fight will be harder, but its better than the half people have no chance to upload a shot at release. For people from France or English speaken region it would be not popular, but it will be fair to all people.

    And why it would be much trouble for users? What is now? You have to go for english IMDB (at german IMDB there no DVD releases) and have to check many times if there is a release date too see. With my idea you have easily 1 time to watch at IMDB (and i can do it on german side of IMDB) and know the date. And you have not to check more as you have to check now. Now you have already to check the release date, why it should make more trouble as now? If you fake a date to upload a shot, the shot go deleted like now someone upload a shot before release date at IMDB. I see no disadvantage to the system now, only advantages!
    • CommentAuthorMisterZob
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2011
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    I'm telling you again: you WILL get TONS of AUs on d-day, if you make people wait that long.
    This will lead to:
    - frustration while people wait to upload shots of DVDs they bought 6 months ago
    - frustration when, at midnight on d-day, 20 AUs are uploaded and you don't get the chance to upload any of your shots anyway
    We don't want that kind of a rush. This would bring flooding on some anticipated release dates. This is not what we want for WTM.
    I'm sorry you live in a country where DVD are released late, but we cannot get most WTM users frustrated just to make you feel better.

    About your suggested date field in the "Add a new movie" procedure:
    Getting the 1st theatrical release date is more work than just the year, especially for the random uploader who doesn't care about it since (s)he's adding a 1930 movie. Which means errors or bogus dates. Which means we would have to check them all or the whole WTM database would get quite messy.
    • CommentAuthorWinterwolf
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2011
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    @MisterZob

    sorry but cant follow your arguments.

    1. people have not enough AU´s for spamming 20 shots of every new movie. You get 1 AU for 1 Month being Supporter. And not everyone use that to spam shots of new movies. It will be some more yes at first time, because german, brasil and other are able too to upload shots. But maybe its no problem. I dont know sure which one, but 1 Mod (i think Chrisy) mentioned a change in AU Using for new an well known movies, so the AU problem is maybe no problem if this change will be done too. So there is more fairness and no disadvantage.

    2. Its not ONLY me. I know about 10 people are very frustrated never gain a good shot of a new movie uploaded. Most of them are living in germany and brasil. And i am talking not to much players here. Maybe there are much more are totally frustrated seeing for month the best shots uploaded from the same people, and they have no chance to upload a shot self. And some people stopped playing here got some reasons, and 1 of this 4-5 reasons was they are never able to upload a shot of new movie and always the fav shots are taken of some less numbers of uploaders. So you always frustrate people, either the about 50% of france/english ones who want no more competition and not wait or like now the other 50% who are unable to upload shots at release and see weekly their favorite shots were taken.
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2011
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    http://whatthemovie.com/shot/148100 I don't think this user understands the concept of release date rule.
    • CommentAuthorLordMyst
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2011
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    is there any news on this subject

    because IMDB doesnt have any DVD releases now
    normally you would put DVD behind the link but that doesn't work anymore

    so what are rules now?
    • CommentAuthorMisterZob
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2011 edited
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    We're still working on this.

    As long as we don't come up with a better rule, here's what we expect you to do:
    - everybody who posts a shot of a movie with no archive shots, should post a webstore-link showing the DVD release date (in a *spoilered* shout, of course), if the movie is not older than a year or so
    - do NOT vote for deletion if no link is provided, just report it to a mod, we'll check and decide if the shot is allowed or not
    • CommentAuthorpioa
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2011
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    @Winterwolf
    Well, you complain at DVD release date at Germany... but i think that in Poland it's worse.
    Sometimes we have to wait over a year for premiere in cinema. (i don't remember the title but there is some comedy from 2001 or 2002 that was released in Poland 4 or 5 years leter)
    A lot of movies you can not buy in Poland. Mostly some old movies, but also newer less known movies.
    But this not a problem becouse if I can't find something in my country i look for example at amazon in UK or USA. The shipment its not so expensive, and they can deliver movies to a lot of countries. So i don't think that different DVD release date in countries is a big problem.
    Lack of language or subtitles can be a issue, but most movies has at least subtitles in few languages ... and i assure you that German language is more popular in movies on DVD than Polish.
    • CommentAuthorElinka
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2011
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    there are some sites that show dvd release dates. I know that rottentomatoes.com does..
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      CommentAuthorsati
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2011
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    http://www.lovefilm.com/ also has dvd releases listed, it's one I'm using currently. I have no idea what happened with imdb dvd section :/