As you know, Google offers a great feature that can match an uploaded image to a huge database, giving you almost the title of a film when you upload a shot from a DVD.
This service can give you an important % of solves in a game like WTM.

This is cheating. And it's killing the game !

Nobody can't do anything about this problem, not even the moderators.
So, as RDPL55 or my self, if you feel frustrated by this situation, you can feel relieved writing a short sentence in your profile's "About you" part.

It surely will not change anything, but that's better than nothing ! :)

Don't know if it helps, but this kind of image is not googlable :

http://journal.liberation.fr/api/libe/v2/paperpage/176693/?size=x500&format=jpg

Of course you can save it and then send it to google, but it's less convenient.

It would be a good thing if google could be disabled or discouraged. A come back to the old times where the "Tour de France"
was won by champions using Champagne in their bottles as only doping :)

Yes with a single right click, you can solve a lot of shots. But don't worry about Google Images, i'm talking right now with very experimented guys and we will find a solution at least to slow down and discourage the cheaters. I don't care about tineye for now because their algorithm is less sophisticated than Google's one and they have a limitation of 100 searches/day. When i'll be able to "disable" Google Images, i'll block Greasemonkey's use on the website.

Happy to read that solutions may be possible... Things will be interresting again...

I don't see how the experience can be interesting but anyway, i'm very disappointed by this and i'm speaking as a simple player, i'm pretty sure more than 75% of the HoF are using it and i don't really understand why because they are all supporters, they like the community, so what's the fun of keep playing with this tool where you can have 80% of the solutions with a single click ?

Of course nobody said that Google Images is forbidden because is so obvious that is cheating that we don't need to tell you, come on the algorithm is so powerful, if there is a face in a shot you can even have the name of the actress and a link to the imdb page of the movie! How that is not cheating ? The quiz-game is ruined

I completely agree with kinoute.
Even if a lot all players are using IMDb for actors or keywords, Google for a quick search with text, tags or hints, I could say it's not exactly like cheating, cause it's an active guess with a help of a database.
Google Images is all except active guessing : it matches or not, you have the answer or not. Pure and simple brainless cheat !
But the worst of it : what the point ? When there's a real challenge playing with cinephilies from all around the planet, no matter if you're in HoF or down in the list, I can't see the interest of having more than 70% of solves using an algorithm. Glory ? Virtual fame ? Self-satisfaction ? Hey folks, there's no money, no trip nor even coockies to win !!

@Fireball
Boredom ? If I get bored of something, I switch with others activities !
WTM would get richer with new features (like private competition, teams, etc...), but it's not an excuse to kill the game.
And by the way : isn't it a game about cinema ? Why people who get bored don't participate more in a cinematographic way (upload, reviews writing, title or character shots, etc...) ?

I gotta say that I discovered the Google Images thing a couple of weeks ago and since then it kinda ruin the game for me!

I liked the way i was frustrated by a shot "i know it !! i saw it a few weeks ago raaaa i have to wait 30 days to see what it is"
But now I don't have the self discipline to wait 30 days and just look it up on google.
I mentioned the problem to the moderators who told me there was nothing wrong with that and it was allowed.
Since then I stopped playing the solving game and focused on the uploading.

PS: I remember the time when i was in the top20 while solving 50% of the shots. When you see people with 90% of solves, you know there's something wrong hahaha^^

So, how about making WTM inaccessible for Chrome, Firefox 3.0+, Internet Explorer 8+, Safari 5.0+? :-)
I hadn't heard about the feature (it doesn't work in Opera), but it sure sounds as if it makes the game into a joke.

Hello.

Well since i'm one of the guys with over 90% solves than it's obvious for you that i’m using Google images. Well you're right ...I'm using google images to search shots. Now i find out that i'm cheating and i'm killing the game! So when i spend few hours in searching some titles, then i actually spent those hours on cheating ...

Well ... don't think that my over 90% solves is the result of google images searching.

First thing. You says that i'm killing the game and ruin all fun ... Well in my case (seems only in may case) i don't consider typing the title under shot i know as fun. Well maybe when i’m first or the tenth... but typing 'Harry Potter' as 154 person is not fun for me.

What i really like, what i really enjoying is searching, digging... and now You tell me that i can do that, that i'm a cheater....

Yes... i'm telling that you forbidding me to search shot. Because i don't see the difference between searching by google images, searching by google (normal way), searching on imdb or WTM. It's only few ways ...
You says that searching on imdb is not cheating because it's an active guess with a help of a database.
And what i'm doing by using google images? ... Well i’m searching with a help of a database.... just different kind of database.. different kind of searching engine …
And when i'm searching shots on WTM by tag or sth... guess what .... i'm also searching with help of database...
Right now you telling me which database i can use and which i can't …how i can search and how i can’t …
It's like: you can't use shovel to dig, but hey ... there is a spoon, you can use it (for now).... yey

What next ... maybe in next year some one will think that using imdb is cheating ... Well, every movie on WTM is also on imdb, and imdb searching engine is very powerful ….
http://www.imdb.com/search/title

Next time searching on WTM will be forbidden ...In fact, i can give you some solution to this, like entering capcha to see a shot or typing one title per minute, or maybe only one try per title ... than you got what you want ... you know the shot or you don’t ... fun … right (?)

About searching in google images ...
“Google Images is all except active guessing : it matches or not, you have the answer or not. “ -- bullshit.

Google images can give you titles.... but it's not like: dear user, you searching the title of this shot and a we happy to tell you that the title is: An Obvious Situation (1930) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164121/ ta da !!!!….

In many case it's only beginning ... there is a lot of shost on Chinese, Korean and Japanese sites, where google translator is not so helping ... with searching on this kind of site when you need figure out which one of those strange signs is the title (for me at the beginning all was strange, but thanks to this now i know the difference between those languages and even i know some words from some of them)

I remember when i was searching some fantasy movie and google images gives me site and image without title. I was translated all site i try to search on it in every way .... only thing i was get from this was site language . it was enough ...

Other time i found by google image very similar picture. Angle was a little bit different and on shot i found was a logo. I spend a couple hours to find this logo … and then movies where this could be used. I still can draw this logo with my closed eyes, but then I didn’t found the title.

Another link was to some disabled blog. In blog url was nick guy who run it (probably) … so i search this nick and after a while i found movie forum when this guy leaves comments. Then after reading a lot of topics i found the title.

This is only some example of my brainless cheating ….

I love searching. Some time ago i wrote under some shot that i spend hours to find the title, and the guy answered that he sorry, that i waist that time … I wrote him that he shouldn't … he gave a great shot with rare movie, and for me searching title was fun i was very satisfied when i finally found it … That’s is challenge for me … not typing what i already know …

As Fireball said … there is nothing from being first, second, the tenth or the twentieth … so considering kinoute sickness that I caused, from now i’m back to guessing only those shots i like or shot that interest me somehow. (Except valuts.... Then i will use to search title all ways i know and i will search it in hell if it will be needed).

That’s all from me.

As I mentioned above, the moderators don't think this is cheating.

But let's be honest pioa, you can solve 75% of the shots only by using Google Images. And I mean for 75% of the shots, the answer just shows up.

http://whatthemovie.com/shot/183494 --> Looks like a tough "foreign" b/w movie with less than 6,000 votes on IMDb

But that's ok, I'll use Googe Images.






Less than 5 seconds later...

Thanks pioa for your post, perhabs you will be the only player using Google Images (and high in HoF) brave enough to give an opinion.

Obviously you think it's not cheating (IMDb, Google text, Google Images or any other search way) because you think it's just a way of searching, and as you seems to really like it, it should be fair you play the game as you want to.

Let me add few more thoughts to the debate :
- WTM is a game named... What the Movie. That's the purpose of the game : do you know the movie ?
If you do : enter the title, green light, one point, awesome !
If you don't : try some, red light, no stress, you'll have the answer in 30 days.

Now there are people who have a lot of time to spend in front of their computers, trying to find movies they haven't seen, or they don't remember.
They can recognize an actor : they use IMDb.
They can find a clue, and important detail in the shot : IMDb or Google.
They focus on format, colors, lights : IMDb or Google.
They know good movie-freaks as friends : they call them !
So there're many options to get help to find a title. But we are already far from the main rule of the game : do you know the movie or not ?

Whatever, we're in a free world, we can do what we want.

- Sorry, but even if I haven't test it, I can easily guess Google Images can give the answer DIRECTLY for more than 50% of tries. So the "digging" aspect of this way of playing seems quite vague for me.

- What about the other players ? You can imagine that other players (I'm one of them) are using the game to compare their knowledge to others movies-lovers from all around the world. Your 90% of solves are not representative of your own knowledge.

Once again : I'm not judging people using search engine (I do it my self with IMDb or Google when there's a text in a shot), I'm saying the HUGE difference between movie freaks like me and the top HoF using Google Images is discouraging, so killing the competition and the game.

To finish : if Kinoute is able to give us a protection against easy cheating, I'm sure you will adore to spend days searching on the internet the good title of a shot... without Google Images !

edit : @office911
Thanks for the example ! I realize I was so dumb trying Google Images with a drag-and-drop :D

@Fireball
Yes, I agree, the real competition is impossible... except with people we know for real (that's why private competitions in WTM would be a great new feature for me).

I often play WTM with friends, and this is very funny to do that ! But come on ! My friends will never give me more than 1% of solves !!
(By the way, the social behaviour in the fact to play with friends and family is quite different than playing with virtual engine... but it's another subject.)

I'm thinking about a way to obtain honesty from the players : perhabs we could have an option in the profile to specify if we are playing totally alone, casualy with friends, or if we are sharing account with people we know...

I think competition is not the principal interest of WTM, so I don't care if people are playing single or by two. I just don't want so much difference between top players and others without having few explanations. It seems fairer to me.

I think it's good to see some discussion on this topic.

Personally, I use the Google Image Search a lot. I don't use it because I desperately want to get a top position in the Hall of Fame, but I mostly use it out of pure curiosity. Before playing on What the Movie I liked movies, but I wouldn't call myself a movie lover at all. I maybe watched two movies every week. And those movies were often the new mediocre romcoms and blockbusters.

It's only since my registration on WTM (September 2008) that I really got into movies. Thanks to all shots on What the Movie (Thank you all uploaders!) and my curiosity I found so many great cinematic gems. I got into black and white movies (Dull and boring? Apparently not at all!), I watched some of the weirdest movies I never would have known otherwise (I like weird movies!) and I spent weeks with watching movies I only got to know because I solved several snapshots from them. Next to that I love instant-solving shots of movies I've never seen. It is great solving shots with <50 solves, only by recognizing the atmosphere of the shot.

I see I’m getting a bit off-topic so back to the subject:

I'm positive the biggest part of the Top 20 solvers use the Google Image Search (a lot). On the other hand, only using Google Image Search won't be enough to reach the top 20, you'd still need to know quite an amount of snapshots. Therefore I think the group using Google Image Search may be bigger than assumed (not only the users who end up high in contests and the hall of fame).

(Also with the contests, I’m sometimes really amazed with the scores some users get. I’m sure some of them don’t cheat (assumed that Google Image Search and flagsearching on profiles isn’t cheating), but I also think people are exchanging solutions. I don’t have any evidence for this (we probably wouldn’t find it, if it exists at all) and it’s another discussion anyway.)

I may be ignorant, but I thought most users were aware of this function Google provides. If anyone is offended by me, because I'm using Google Image Search, I apologize. I could try to reduce using this image search, but I'm afraid my curiosity will be too strong sometimes ;). I’m afraid it’s difficult to find a good solution to this and I wish you good luck, kinoute. I won’t stop using this function until the What-the-Movie-team makes an unambiguous statement against it.

I’m sorry for my long, incoherent and sometimes off-topic comment, but I thought you’d want to hear the opinion from another regular user of the discussed searching method.

Furthermore, I agree with Keyser_Soze’s comment and I realize I might be partly responsible for this with using the Google Image Search.

For those who are still wondering how much Google Images help...

@Keyser_Soze
Can't agree more with you.

@Antituur
This would be the end of the uploading process. Uploaders want to choose shots they love, not uneasy and "uncheatable" shots.
It would be like giving people the choice between weightlifting and chess, but "please choose chess, there's less cheaters in it"...

@Zythux
I can understand you want to discover new movies. That's why WTM creators have add the "Show solution" and "Bookmark"'s buttons.
If you really don't care about the competition, you just have to wait 30 days.

@office911
Booooohhhh, you cheater !!!! :)

picture this...

you're a student of "movie history", you're at the end of the semester, your teacher wants to see how many movie classics you remember from his class.
he decides to do it a little different this time. so he hands out papers with 50 pictures that show the most historic or most memorable scenes of the most important movies from his class. you get 2 hours to do the test. you're supposed to write the correct movie title under the snapshot.

it's not a very important test. the teacher won't let you fail his class if you don't do well and he doesn't even grade the test. he's just curious how many movies his students actually remember at the end of his class. so, there's no pressure, it's all fun and games. but he politely asks you to please do it on you're own and don't use any help. only use your movie knowledge, nothing else. that way the teacher can get a true impression of how much his students have learned and how well his teaching methods work. so, please help him out with this. he's a really cool guy after all. actually he's your favorite teacher so far...

now, twenty minutes into the test, you see the first snapshot that you can't even get right if your life depended on it. but you know you've seen the movie and you have the name on the tip of your tongue. you just can't remember it. what you do remember is that the test is not important, it won't be even be graded. but on the other hand you're in competition with your fellow students and buddies. maybe you might even be able to impress that hot chick sitting in the other row. so, all you want to do is get as many right answers as possible. you look over to that nerd sitting next to you, he's kind of weird because he grew up in a garage but he still knows every goddamn thing about movies. you ask him to help you with all the pictures you can't get right and of course he does.

but since you ask him for help on so many of the pictures, your classmates and the teacher start to notice it after a while. now, your teacher of course won't call you a cheater, he doesn't do anything because this test is more like a survey for him and he doesn't care enough to insult one of his students. so, you go on filling in all the right answers with the help of the nerd.

one week later the teacher gives out the tests marked with his corrections. just for fun, so you and your classmates can see how well you did. no grades on the papers, just a "correct" or "incorrect" behind every movie title. of course you have totally aced this test and got every single movie right. you had a lot of fun but of course some of your classmates don't like that you actually did like 70% of the test with the help of the nerd. some of them won't call you out on it because they try to be polite but others don't hold back and call you a cheater.
.
.
.
now guess who the teacher, the nerd and the classmates are on WTM

Is it so different from uploading shots with an text you'll find instantly when searching it on Google? For me it isn't, but that doesn't mean snapshots with text can't be good or shouldn't be uploaded. I've been using google image search for quite some time now, but I never check my own uploads to see if they're traceable this way. Does it really matter if your shot gets 20 solves or 40 (of which 20 used google images)? I just try to find shots (and movies) that are interesting for both people who recognize the shot and people who don't.

To quote theoffice911 from an earlier comment in this topic:
'I mentioned the problem to the moderators who told me there was nothing wrong with that and it was allowed.'
It's obvious kinoute is against using it, but I think as long as the WTM-staff doesn't carry out one shared opinion on using this option, you can't call it cheating.

Yes Asmodai I was refering to the talk we had last month.
I don't remember if you said it was allowed or not. But I told you I was gonna put a shot from a TV Show on a fake website about Juno, wait for Google Images to see him and then upload him on WTM.
Then wait for the people using Google Images to solve them and finally see who is cheating.

That's what I did : http://www.sixfeetunder-france.com/Juno/ (Guess which shot is not from Juno lol) but unfortunately Google Images never got the picture...

You told me I could do that, but that wouldn't mean the people who solved it are cheaters because as long as you're allowed to use IMDb keywords, then why not Google Images. Nothing in the rules say anything about that, so yes technically it's not cheating.
From that, yea I guess I understood it was allowed.

@LePaposaure : I wasn't cheating! It was undercover investigation hahaha^^

@theoffice911

I did the same test but involuntarily :
One of my shots of the Hitchcock series (yes I'm proud to have passed 42 shots of 42 different Hitchcock movies in a row. They are all in the archives now) was incorrectly referenced on a site that was given by google image. Funny experience:)

Personnaly I discovered google image very early (maybe I am a geek) and my ranking jumped from the 20-30th place to about the 10th. Not such a big deal. I hesitated many times to start such a "coming out" thread on the forum. Not to stigmatize cheaters but maybe to help WTM that we all love to change in a positive way.

@kinoute
I think that setting a rule without technical solutions to make it respected is useless. Like setting a speed limit in France without radars:)
I use google because it exists and it is easy to use. And it helps me a lot in solving "easy" shots that bore me. I think it is impossible to forbid completely just because you could always make a "print screen" and search it through google after croping. But if it becomes more difficult to use I am sure most of the players will stop using it.

@Efji of course we can't disable completely Google Images, there will always have different ways to cheat with it, but i have already some ideas to discourage players who use it by making it very difficult, at least not like ATM where only two clicks are enough to find the solution. If after coding something a player has to take a print screen and upload it to use Google Images, that will be already enough, they will get bored after taking three screenshots.

Like Asmodai said, all of this will be soon discussed with the entire staff. And i don't think making an announcement to 50,000 potential players is a good idea, our solution will never be 100% effective and explain clearly this way of cheating in a message to the community could motivate more players to use it.

Well, I just did a little test, for the first time using Google Image Search. It's absolutely astonishing. In a few minutes you solve 70% of the shots of a day, without any difficulty.

I would say that anyone who wishes to compete in the game is obliged to use the feature, otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the others. This leads to a totally ridiculous situation: tens (hundreds?) of people all performing the same search ritual to end up with the same results. What a waste of time and energy!

(I'm glad that I have given up my attempts to play the game seriously quite some time ago.)

Curiously, I put three New Submission shots of, as usual, poorly known movies... I checked before that they won't appear on Google Image and surprisingly... they remain all three unsolved since yet... As in old good time... :)
So I can already congrulate those who'll solve it first !!

Wow, I am really surprised. I never heard of GI before and just tried it out. Impressive search engine, indeed!
Now I am thinking of quitting WTM more than ever. I mean, there always have been way to cheat - yes, I think using GI is cheating @pioa!!!
Some players share solutions, some play in teams, I even know a player that used to play WTM in a bar together with all guests, etc.
This is impossibly to prevent. But I always could at least enjoy the performances of the fellowes I know in WTM - simply by contacting them and talking to them I was sure that they play the game mostly alone because they like it just as much as I do. And I was always astonished when one of them reached the Top10 or made a great first solve on a rear shot I just uploaded...
But now, with GI at hand, the game simply loses it's fun. Now, I am always suspicious...
I am really sad. If nobody comes up with a great idea, I think this might be the end of WTM as we know it!

Sorry but I dont like this idea maguro_nigirl !
It takes less than 20 seconds to find the answer in Google Images, and sometimes more than 20 seconds to find the answer in my head !